or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Sound Science › Audiophile cables, an interesting question.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Audiophile cables, an interesting question. - Page 57

post #841 of 1186

Right, as explained then, replace 'best sound' by 'what sounds better to my ears'. I've tried EQing pretty extensively but I just couldn't get the DAC1 to sound anywhere nearly as good as it does paired with my tube amp though.

post #842 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by ab initio View Post
 

Should we start a new thread to discuss issues with DAC design? Because it's a little off topic in the cables thread.

 

Anyone know the science behind "diode effects" in "directional, burned-in" cables?

 

How about dielectric-bias systems?

 

 

Cheers

 

http://www.jandrpc.com/Quantum%20Tunnel%20of%20Love.htm

post #843 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lids369 View Post
 

 

http://www.jandrpc.com/Quantum%20Tunnel%20of%20Love.htm

Until it is established that differences in cables (or differences in the same cable pre and post burn-in) exist through a proper, double blind study, speculation on why exactly cables burn in is kind of pointless. It would be like speculating on why the emperor chose a fine silk for his new wardrobe rather than cashmere when, in fact, nobody can prove that he ever had any clothes in the first place.


Edited by cjl - 6/2/14 at 4:36pm
post #844 of 1186

naked emperor! wizard if you ever need a third brand name, I suggest avoiding that one.:redface:

 

 

I tend to disagree with just how bob describes what he believes in, in his intro... so no need to go further for me.

he seems to know a lot about electrons, but not so much about how memory works on humans. and if I had to agree about something we don't know how to measure yet (which I really don't as far as audio is concerned), it would just lead us to an even bigger problem, how are we supposed to trust our own memory of something we heard a month before? (1 month with a few hours of use each day, being the delay for a good burn-in of most products with a 30days return policy).

this article is keeping an open mind on something very improbable, and at the same time, dismissing something very obvious. naked emperor!!!!!!!!

post #845 of 1186
Actually, there are companies like Morrow audio that offer a burn-in service.

One could order a pair of cables withOUT burn-in and another pair of the same length and model WITH the burn-in service and listen to them.

I'd offer to do this, but my wife has hinted at the high probability that if one more cable i do not need arrives in the mail; all my gear would accidentally appear in the same bin and on fire. Since she spends more time at home than i do, i think she knows about these things...
post #846 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjl View Post

I think this has already been explained, but I think "best sound" is a fairly objective criterion...

I strongly disagree.

"Best measurements, "best specifications," "best reproduction," these would be decidedly objective criteria. But "best sound" very strongly implies there's a human being at the end of the chain. Have you ever walked up to an Audio Precision rig and asked it "How's it sound?" Of course you haven't. But I'm sure you've asked that question of plenty of humans.

I'm sorry, but in my book, how something sounds is a human experience and therefore decidedly subjective.

se
post #847 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by castleofargh View Post
 

naked emperor! wizard if you ever need a third brand name, I suggest avoiding that one.:redface:

 

 

I tend to disagree with just how bob describes what he believes in, in his intro... so no need to go further for me.

he seems to know a lot about electrons, but not so much about how memory works on humans. and if I had to agree about something we don't know how to measure yet (which I really don't as far as audio is concerned), it would just lead us to an even bigger problem, how are we supposed to trust our own memory of something we heard a month before? (1 month with a few hours of use each day, being the delay for a good burn-in of most products with a 30days return policy).

this article is keeping an open mind on something very improbable, and at the same time, dismissing something very obvious. naked emperor!!!!!!!!

 

He cites a PEER REVIEWED STUDY that states MATERIALS CHANGE OVER PERIODS OF TIME WHEN YOU APPLY ELECTRICITY. Quantum Tunneling isn't a minor effect that is hard to measure. If you want to see quantum tunneling at work, look outside at the big glowing ball of hydrostatically stable gas giving you life. The fact that I gave you guys an article with legitimate citations, and that still wasn't good enough to maybe admit that your high school or basic college physics classes aren't enough to explain what happens in cables is ridiculous. 

post #848 of 1186
Quote:

You can say anything when you make up your own facts.

"Only a few years ago, audiophiles complained that circuits employing negative feedback affected the sound of amplifiers adversely. The number crunchers denied it because the distortion figures were so much improved with the use of feedback. Turns out the audiophiles were right... "

No on has ever demonstrated this to be the case.

The "article" is a great example of taking grains of truth, blowing them all out of proportion and out if context in order to weave a nice bit if propaganda that will sway the average person. Quacks and charlatans have been using this sort of approach for years.

se
post #849 of 1186
Not saying it's not enough - i'm of the "believer", Fox Molder camp (though i have yet to appear in a porno. Not one that anyone sane would buy at least). It'd just be nice to hear it for myself.

Btw, "best" sound is entirely based upon the definition of "best" or "good" in the first place. For a particular crowd, it could be simply the jaw dislocating ability of a woofer, another probably something different.
post #850 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lids369 View Post

He cites a PEER REVIEWED STUDY that states MATERIALS CHANGE OVER PERIODS OF TIME WHEN YOU APPLY ELECTRICITY. Quantum Tunneling isn't a minor effect that is hard to measure. If you want to see quantum tunneling at work, look outside at the big glowing ball of hydrostatically stable gas giving you life. The fact that I gave you guys an article with legitimate citations, and that still wasn't good enough to maybe admit that your high school or basic college physics classes aren't enough to explain what happens in cables is ridiculous. 

"Legitimate citations" used to fool those who don't know any better. The piece is pure propaganda. Nothing more, nothing less.

se
post #851 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post


I strongly disagree.

"Best measurements, "best specifications," "best reproduction," these would be decidedly objective criteria. But "best sound" very strongly implies there's a human being at the end of the chain. Have you ever walked up to an Audio Precision rig and asked it "How's it sound?" Of course you haven't. But I'm sure you've asked that question of plenty of humans.

I'm sorry, but in my book, how something sounds is a human experience and therefore decidedly subjective.

se

Fair enough. This is certainly a subjective enough point that I'm not going to argue about it.

post #852 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lids369 View Post
 

 

He cites a PEER REVIEWED STUDY that states MATERIALS CHANGE OVER PERIODS OF TIME WHEN YOU APPLY ELECTRICITY. Quantum Tunneling isn't a minor effect that is hard to measure. If you want to see quantum tunneling at work, look outside at the big glowing ball of hydrostatically stable gas giving you life. The fact that I gave you guys an article with legitimate citations, and that still wasn't good enough to maybe admit that your high school or basic college physics classes aren't enough to explain what happens in cables is ridiculous. 

Even if we assume for a moment that cables do change over periods of time when you apply electricity, that alone isn't enough to demonstrate that cable burn in is real or significant. You would have to show that the changes were of a sufficient magnitude to affect the sound in an audible way, which is definitely not shown in that article.

 

 

post #853 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post


You can say anything when you make up your own facts.

"Only a few years ago, audiophiles complained that circuits employing negative feedback affected the sound of amplifiers adversely. The number crunchers denied it because the distortion figures were so much improved with the use of feedback. Turns out the audiophiles were right... "

No on has ever demonstrated this to be the case.

The "article" is a great example of taking grains of truth, blowing them all out of proportion and out if context in order to weave a nice bit if propaganda that will sway the average person. Quacks and charlatans have been using this sort of approach for years.

se

 

Negative feedback in the context of the Global feedback does affect the sound due to the time delay, and that's why it sounds better to not include that in your circuit. 

 

He even says that whether these effects are audible is another story. His point with the article is stating that the cable does change its properties over the course of time, and therefore it does "burn in." 

 

 

Edit: The point of posting that article was that person was asking someone to explain some of the terms on the Nordost website.


Edited by lids369 - 6/2/14 at 8:17pm
post #854 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lids369 View Post
 

 

Negative feedback in the context of the Global feedback does affect the sound due to the time delay, and that's why it sounds better to not include that in your circuit. 

*citation needed*

 

(both for the delay itself, including quantitative descriptions of its magnitude, and for the audibility of such a delay)

post #855 of 1186
Wow. In that article the author rambles on about things he clearly doesn't understand (or hopes the reader doesn't understand). I'm not impressed nor would anyone with the slightest inkling of quantum mechanics, electricity&magnetism, or materials science be fooled.

Cheers
Quote:
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Sound Science
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Sound Science › Audiophile cables, an interesting question.