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Audiophile cables, an interesting question. - Page 6

post #76 of 1025

I agree the most closed minded are the people who believe all cables sound different , try and say otherwise or use facts to prove them wrong and they simply get upset.

post #77 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcarmoose View Post

I really do have a lot of unproven scientific beliefs, cables being one of them. The reason I post is to maybe help others to at least try some different stuff in their system and try new things. Some times things make a difference and sometimes they don't. Science cold and hard has given us many gifts and made a grand improvement in our lives, on this same note having an open mind is the only true way leading to experiment through trial and error. I would feel sad to learn that many folks only read the opinions of some and don't at the least try things with an open mind, as to only believe what we are told to believe is the first step to true enslavement.


You continue to misrepresent the facts, in fact you've got it completely backwards! It's the opinion of science and of all the evidence, not "the opinions of some". The whole point of science is that we don't have to try everything for ourselves through trial and error, scientists have done it for us, we can take certain things for granted and move on to other areas of more interest. I don't have an open mind when after decades of trying, there's still not a shred of evidence to back up the marketing claims of cable sellers and I don't need to throw myself off the edge of a cliff to prove to myself that Newton was right about gravity.

While you may believe that you are posting with a sincere desire to help others, what you are actually doing by arguing against the evidence is supporting the barely legal pseudo-scientific marketing hype which is designed to scam innocent audiophiles looking for high fidelity. The end result of you posts is IMHO, the opposite of providing help. Now, if you've got some actual evidence that differences between cables can be heard, I'd love to hear it (and I'm sure everyone else here would too) but until you do, you can't come here and call us all enslaved and close minded when you are the one enslaved in a medieval world where provably unreliable perception and opinion is worth more than provable scientific fact and evidence!

G
post #78 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post




No wonder I couldn't find the centerfold. biggrin.gif

 

se

 

 



Thanks!  I couldn't stop laughing whenI read that!

 

post #79 of 1025

i have to admit i have never tried comparing cables, but the sheer fact that i am unable to instantly a/b switch from one headphone cable to another makes trying to hear a difference impossible.

even a few seconds of silence in between makes distinguishing differences in sound A LOT more difficult.  I found this to be true even when comparing amps that truly DID sound different.

 

its very amusing to me that people say cables "extend the treble" or "increase low end" or ANYTHING that involves the actual changing of volume or range of the sound frequencies in cables.  Its amusing b/c there are plenty of documented tests, some done here by head-fiers, that prove there are no frequency changes happening with cables.   It just does not happen.. ever... and its not like there is some magic voodoo happening in people's ears that detects some kind of frequency anomilee that the testing gear is not able to detect.   this data alone makes me HUGELY skeptical that cables could make a difference... aaaaand.. these tests are very easy to do if you have the proper software. 

 

post #80 of 1025

i used to keep the original cables.

because sometimes, stock cables are better matching than aftermarket cables.

 

go to a mini meet. try same headphones with different cables, on a same source and an amp.

if you dont hear the difference, you dont need to bother with cables at all. but if you do, try em with various interconnects. 

those are a little bit more harder to distinguish, i would say.

 

if you believe in cables but youre too broke for a cable upgrade, get some beers before you listen to music. that may help.

maybe not............

post #81 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantsleep View Post

go to a mini meet. try same headphones with different cables, on a same source and an amp.


Yes, because peer pressure is sure to prevent bias biggrin.gif

post #82 of 1025

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantsleep View Post

if you believe in cables but youre too broke for a cable upgrade, get some beers before you listen to music. that may help.

maybe not............


Only helps the wallet if it's natty ice wink.gif.

 

Anyway, cables are boring.  I want to see a subjectivist's head try to wrap itself around something interesting like frequency compensation.  Imagine the audiophile-isms that would come out of that conversation.
 

 

post #83 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregorio View Post



You continue to misrepresent the facts, in fact you've got it completely backwards! It's the opinion of science and of all the evidence, not "the opinions of some". The whole point of science is that we don't have to try everything for ourselves through trial and error, scientists have done it for us, we can take certain things for granted and move on to other areas of more interest. I don't have an open mind when after decades of trying, there's still not a shred of evidence to back up the marketing claims of cable sellers and I don't need to throw myself off the edge of a cliff to prove to myself that Newton was right about gravity.

While you may believe that you are posting with a sincere desire to help others, what you are actually doing by arguing against the evidence is supporting the barely legal pseudo-scientific marketing hype which is designed to scam innocent audiophiles looking for high fidelity. The end result of you posts is IMHO, the opposite of providing help. Now, if you've got some actual evidence that differences between cables can be heard, I'd love to hear it (and I'm sure everyone else here would too) but until you do, you can't come here and call us all enslaved and close minded when you are the one enslaved in a medieval world where provably unreliable perception and opinion is worth more than provable scientific fact and evidence!

G



I like what you have to say gregorio, except the bit about hearing differences in cables. I have evidence differences can be heard, tons of it. It is all the sighted testing of cables where people report hearing differences. I have heard differences. The real issue is what causes those differences and I am sure science tells it is is caused by the listener and their brain/ears being subject to placebo etc.

 

I used to get annoyed at the audiophiles who claimed sound quality differences, now I am more annoyed at the cable companies and review magazines and internet sites which try and use pseudoscience to explain what is happening to make one cable sound better than another.

 

Here is another reason why I am far more open minded than any cable believer. If evidence arises which shows how one cable can sound better than another, I will go with the evidence. I will then be in the same place as the cable believer, the big difference being I am there for the right reason, science. They got there for the wrong reason, pseudoscience.

post #84 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prog Rock Man View Post

I have evidence differences can be heard, tons of it. It is all the sighted testing of cables where people report hearing differences. I have heard differences.

Yes, you're right, I should have been more precise and said scientific evidence, DBTs.

G
post #85 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redcarmoose View Post

Basically, I am all done with the back and forth of wearing out my keyboard keys trying to run my findings across someone who believes they are a total expert and gets some kind of gratification by showing the world how totally smart they are. I have to say I'm the worlds best crack-pot science believer. So you could say I'm the perfect one for making my point in colored letters and I really do have a lot of unproven scientific beliefs, cables being one of them. The reason I post is to maybe help others to at least try some different stuff in their system and try new things. Some times things make a difference and sometimes they don't. Science cold and hard has given us many gifts and made a grand improvement in our lives, on this same note having an open mind is the only true way leading to experiment through trial and error. I would feel sad to learn that many folks only read the opinions of some and don't at the least try things with an open mind, as to only believe what we are told to believe is the first step to true enslavement. 

 

I don't know if it's reaching the level of cliche here, but this video definitely deserves another posting after yet another demonstration of the misunderstanding of open-mindedness.


 

post #86 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackbeardBen View Post

 

I don't know if it's reaching the level of cliche here, but this video definitely deserves another posting after yet another demonstration of the misunderstanding of open-mindedness.

 



WOW, just WOW. Amazing video eek.gif

post #87 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parall3l View Post

WOW, just WOW. Amazing video eek.gif

 

It is..I've seen, and posted, it a few times, and it never gets old. 

 

post #88 of 1025

I believe the guy in the video because of the Brittish accent!

 

Is a photon a particle or a wave? Is it both at the same time? Is it not a particle or a wave, but something else entirely. Or is a photon just a figment of our imaginations. Is it a holographic reality? If you said yes to any of these questions, then science will never be 100% correct.

post #89 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megaohmz View Post

I believe the guy in the video because of the Brittish accent!

 

Is a photon a particle or a wave? Is it both at the same time? Is it not a particle or a wave, but something else entirely. Or is a photon just a figment of our imaginations. Is it a holographic reality? If you said yes to any of these questions, then science will never be 100% correct.


Did you stop the video as soon as you heard the British accent or were you just incapable of understanding the accent?

There are certain things which science can explain with an extremely high level of certainty, there are other things for which science has only a balance of certainty (many scientific theories for example). Even a schoolchild should have this basic level of understanding of science. Science provides a wealth of evidence that differences between expensive "audiophile" cables and standard cables are inaudible. To dismiss all this evidence and indeed to attempt to dismiss the whole of science itself, in favour of a belief in your personal perception, is about as irrational as it's possible to be. Trying to convince others (through your posts) that your belief is more valid than all the scientific evidence, is as the video states: "Close-Minded, Controlling, Arrogant and Presumptuous in the extreme".

If you have some scientific evidence of audible differences between audiophile and standard cables, I and most others here would love to hear it and if necessary modify our beliefs but if you don't have any objective evidence, then you are exhibiting the very worst character flaws demonstrated in the video.

G
Edited by gregorio - 10/1/11 at 2:22am
post #90 of 1025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megaohmz View Post

I believe the guy in the video because of the Brittish accent!

 

Is a photon a particle or a wave? Is it both at the same time? Is it not a particle or a wave, but something else entirely. Or is a photon just a figment of our imaginations. Is it a holographic reality? If you said yes to any of these questions, then science will never be 100% correct.


Again typical subjectivist arguments based on irrelevant issues and claims that science cannot be 100% certain (which is in itself is debatable) so the science as presented by the objectivist side cannot be belived.

Sorry Gregorio, again to pick you up on a point, you say "Science provides a wealth of evidence that differences between expensive "audiophile" cables and standard cables are inaudible", but to many people they are not, to such a degree that understandably they react when objectivists say there is no difference.

The real issue is that the differences heard are not down to the cable, they are down to the listener. The evidence for that is

- the very consistent results and differences between sighted, blind comparison and ABX testing of cables

- the inconsistency between cable company claims about how cables are made and what they are made of and sound quality differences

- the properties of cables and the lack of a link with sound quality

- the explanation provided by placebo, buyer justificaton and psychoacoustics for the difference being in the listener and not in the cable
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