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Audiophile cables, an interesting question. - Page 49

post #721 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

You want me to help you cut to the chase with that choice too?

What... You mean how a $100 DAC will sound just as good as a $1500 one? 😊
post #722 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astropin View Post


What... You mean how a $100 DAC will sound just as good as a $1500 one? 😊

Oh, it's worse than that. Not only will the $100 DAC sound the same as the $1500 one (assuming both are competently designed), they'll both also sound the same as the DAC in something like an iPhone or Sansa Clip.

post #723 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astropin View Post

In regards to your link.

1) There is no real science on that website.

2) Caelin Gabriel who wrote the "article" and is CEO of Shunyata Research Inc. and as near as I can tell it's sole employee; does not have a college degree and is not a scientist.

3) The "article" deals with POWER cables while we are talking about interconnects.......not that it makes much difference.

4) To date....No One, No Where, has ever passed a double blind test on audio cables.

.........................................................

Back in 2010 Caelin Gabriel wrote a chapter in a booklet for 'the absolute sound'. The booklet was "The Golden Ear's Guide to Audio System Setup an Evaluation" and the chapter was "Technical Background: AC Power" | 'AC Power and Sound Relationships'.

 

Now considering the author and the publisher, the chapter had lots of good information. (I didn't expect any good info).

In the past about 2/3 of the chapter segments were on the Shunyata Research website.  But when they completely redid the site, many of the old pages were lost.

post #724 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astropin View Post

What... You mean how a $100 DAC will sound just as good as a $1500 one? 😊
Have you ever heard a $1500 dac? Or expensive power cables or interconnects? I have, and I'm a real scientist. My professors at engineering school told us that observations rule over equations, and my observations told me the power cord and expensive DACs work better. Especially use observations over equations when there aren't any equations for how music sounds. The Bryston BDA-2 blew away everything I knew about what music could sound like from my headphones compared with my modest Schiit Modi DAC. It was bigger than the jump from my first headphones to my HD600s. If you guys want to be obstinate because you can't afford this stuff, go ahead and complain about sour grapes, and I'll just go out and experience the stuff.
post #725 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lids369 View Post



Have you ever heard a $1500 dac? Or expensive power cables or interconnects? I have, and I'm a real scientist. My professors at engineering school told us that observations rule over equations, and my observations told me the power cord and expensive DACs work better. Especially use observations over equations when there aren't any equations for how music sounds. The Bryston BDA-2 blew away everything I knew about what music could sound like from my headphones compared with my modest Schiit Modi DAC. It was bigger than the jump from my first headphones to my HD600s. If you guys want to be obstinate because you can't afford this stuff, go ahead and complain about sour grapes, and I'll just go out and experience the stuff.

Observations mean nothing without proper experimental procedure and controls (double blind comparison, level matching to <0.1dB difference, etc). When subjected to these criteria, nobody has yet shown there to be an audible difference between two competently designed dacs (or cables).

post #726 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lids369 View Post

Have you ever heard a $1500 dac? Or expensive power cables or interconnects? I have, and I'm a real scientist. My professors at engineering school told us that observations rule over equations, and my observations told me the power cord and expensive DACs work better.

 

And I bet they told you that controlled tests rule over both.

 

DACs perform to spec or they don't. They aren't supposed to color the sound, just translate it accurately from digital to analog. If they do that without audible levels of distortion or alteration of the sound, they all sound alike... and they pretty much do.

post #727 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lids369 View Post



Have you ever heard a $1500 dac? Or expensive power cables or interconnects? I have, and I'm a real scientist. My professors at engineering school told us that observations rule over equations, and my observations told me the power cord and expensive DACs work better. Especially use observations over equations when there aren't any equations for how music sounds. The Bryston BDA-2 blew away everything I knew about what music could sound like from my headphones compared with my modest Schiit Modi DAC. It was bigger than the jump from my first headphones to my HD600s. If you guys want to be obstinate because you can't afford this stuff, go ahead and complain about sour grapes, and I'll just go out and experience the stuff.

 

If you want to assert your penile girth, you've come to the wrong place. Bright red muscle cars and $1500 DACs is the domain of 'the other side'.

 

Just saying you're a scientist loud enough (and clicking your shoes) doesn't magically make it so. You also have to pay heed to the second part of the lesson I'm sure your professor taught you. The one about objectivity.

 


Edited by limpidglitch - 5/30/14 at 10:38am
post #728 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by limpidglitch View Post
 

 

If you want to assert your penile girth, you've come to the wrong place. Bright red muscle cars and $1500 DACs is the domain of 'the other side'.

 


 

What's wrong with bright red muscle cars? At least they are objectively and measurably faster, more powerful, and louder than the majority of cars on the road...

post #729 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lids369 View Post



If you guys want to be obstinate because you can't afford this stuff, go ahead and complain about sour grapes, and I'll just go out and experience the stuff.

 

 

Careful, your immaturity and ignorance is showing. I choose Monoprice for my cables because I've done my homework and don't like to throw away money; not because I can't afford them.

 

Oh....and my computer DAC cost me $60. I'll put it up against any DAC you can find in a double blind test.

post #730 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjl View Post
 

What's wrong with bright red muscle cars? At least they are objectively and measurably faster, more powerful, and louder than the majority of cars on the road...


Nothing. Nothing wrong with $1500 DACs either.

post #731 of 1186

Audiophile bats need $1500 DACs.

post #732 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by limpidglitch View Post

Quote:Originally Posted by cjl What's wrong with bright red muscle cars? At least they are objectively and measurably faster, more powerful, and louder than the majority of cars on the road...Nothing. Nothing wrong with $1500 DACs either.


Agreed

I spent about that a few years back because the DAC had the features I wanted including a remote, the company is stable and offers a long warrantee and has a good reputation for honoring it, and I liked their domestic manufacturing model. Not expecting to change it out for at least a decade because DACs are a fairly mature technology, so the stability of the manufacturer was an important part of the decision.

And I just wanted a new toy...

I didn't spend the money because I expected it to sound better than a less expensive DAC.
post #733 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lids369 View Post
 Especially use observations over equations when there aren't any equations for how music sounds.

what? you might at least want to rethink that part. how you will like your sound, ok we have no equation about that. but how music sounds we know entirely and completely. and even better, we know how it should sound even before we measure it. again that might be different from what you prefer, but taste and science should be well kept apart before telling something is "better" than another. I like red and dislike green, that doesn't make red better.

 

each audio gear gets an information and is supposed to output said information a certain way. any gear that has good timing, signature, distortion and noise, will sound oh so very close to what it's supposed to sound like. and as there is only one, exactly perfect way to express the music information of a CD, it's a given that all good gears with good specs will sound the same.

anytime you tried something and heard night and day difference, you were badly tricked. that's how it really is. when one dac has 0.005% THD+noise, a neutral signature and any reasonable jitter, it will sound as it's supposed to sound. and the "very better" dac with 0.002% thd+noise, while being better, will sound so damn close a human might not be able to tell them apart in DBT on usual music.

that's how is really is. that is science. if whatever duper dac you've tried sounded really better and different, then it had a different signature, or maybe a pleasant but real big distortion. in both cases that doesn't make it better at all. at best you preferred the altered sound to the real one(and that's perfectly ok). that and placebo are the only responses. altered(so not hifi) sound for audible stuff, and placebo for any differences well under -80db.

 

all good stuff will sound identical. that is science because fidelity has only one answer.

post #734 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

Audiophile bats need $1500 DACs.

We did research with bats. Im pretty sure they dont care about $1500 DACs. However, they are mighty fond of $0.01mealworms

Cheers
post #735 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lids369 View Post


Have you ever heard a $1500 dac? Or expensive power cables or interconnects? I have, and I'm a real scientist. My professors at engineering school told us that observations rule over equations, and my observations told me the power cord and expensive DACs work better. Especially use observations over equations when there aren't any equations for how music sounds. The Bryston BDA-2 blew away everything I knew about what music could sound like from my headphones compared with my modest Schiit Modi DAC. It was bigger than the jump from my first headphones to my HD600s. If you guys want to be obstinate because you can't afford this stuff, go ahead and complain about sour grapes, and I'll just go out and experience the stuff.

Be careful here. There are probably a lot more folks here with more schooling and degrees here than you expect. Your uncontrolled experience is peanuts compared to proper test proceedures. For example, how did you control for the difference in output levels between you modi and bryston?

Cheers
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