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Audiophile cables, an interesting question. - Page 12

post #166 of 1186

The level matching might have made a difference, I did nothing to either cable, both straight out of the box. To randomize, since we had only two cables and no real commitment to a serious scientific endeavor here she just flipped a coin. It wasn't double blind, she knew which cables were which and it's entirely possible that I knew as well since the dragon cables are slightly heavier but this was as little bias as I could muster.

 

I can do level matching and try again at some point if we'd like a more scientific endeavor. I just saw the argument on here, knew I had two cables and an extra set of hands and just threw together a relatively rudimentary experiment. 

 

The awg of the moon audios is 24, is silver and 5 ft. long. The stock cables are copper and 10ft long but I'm not sure how to find the gauge of the stock cable without ripping it open, and I just don't want to do that. I'm no math whiz, so I'll let the people with more knowledge of this stuff work out the ohms.

 

I'm open to suggestions about how to make this a better test, so next time I try this, I'll have to level match the cables (I honestly never thought that would be a factor) and I'll try to figure out a way to avoid the possible weight bias.

post #167 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by nileppezdel77 View Post

The level matching might have made a difference, I did nothing to either cable, both straight out of the box. To randomize, since we had only two cables and no real commitment to a serious scientific endeavor here she just flipped a coin. It wasn't double blind, she knew which cables were which and it's entirely possible that I knew as well since the dragon cables are slightly heavier but this was as little bias as I could muster.

 

I can do level matching and try again at some point if we'd like a more scientific endeavor. I just saw the argument on here, knew I had two cables and an extra set of hands and just threw together a relatively rudimentary experiment. 

 

The awg of the moon audios is 24, is silver and 5 ft. long. The stock cables are copper and 10ft long but I'm not sure how to find the gauge of the stock cable without ripping it open, and I just don't want to do that. I'm no math whiz, so I'll let the people with more knowledge of this stuff work out the ohms.

 

I'm open to suggestions about how to make this a better test, so next time I try this, I'll have to level match the cables (I honestly never thought that would be a factor) and I'll try to figure out a way to avoid the possible weight bias.


Isn't copper known to have a warmer sound than silver?  Maybe that explains the difference you bass that you heard.

 

post #168 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintly View Post


Isn't copper known to have a warmer sound than silver?  Maybe that explains the difference you bass that you heard.

 


There is no science to back that claim up. But the rumour that copper sounds warmer and silver sounds brighter is enough to influence people into hearing differences. That is the mind at work, not the cable.

 

post #169 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prog Rock Man View Post




There is no science to back that claim up. But the rumour that copper sounds warmer and silver sounds brighter is enough to influence people into hearing differences. That is the mind at work, not the cable.

 



I see. Unfortunately, that notion is pretty deeply etched into the minds of the cable crowds. I personally do enjoy saving money, although some of the custom cables are so pretty.

 

 

post #170 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintly View Post


Isn't copper known to have a warmer sound than silver?  Maybe that explains the difference you bass that you heard.

 



I've measured the FR differences between copper and silver analog cables, neither type had any notable deviation from utterly pancake flat...

 

post #171 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prog Rock Man View Post


There is no science to back that claim up. But the rumour that copper sounds warmer and silver sounds brighter is enough to influence people into hearing differences. That is the mind at work, not the cable.

 



Right, and this is the problem. I don't like being suckered into paying top dollar for cables if they don't do anything... At least they are thicker than the stock cable; my cat likes chewing on things she shouldn't.  

post #172 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prog Rock Man View Post


There is no science to back that claim up. But the rumour that copper sounds warmer and silver sounds brighter is enough to influence people into hearing differences. That is the mind at work, not the cable.

 


Silver is "bright" colored, copper is "warm" colored- there's the influence on the perception of sound IMO.

 

post #173 of 1186

I would quite like to participate in a blind ABX test myself. Personally I'm siding with scientific findings on this one, but I'd also like to test some other things, like amps. 

 

 

 

Also, arguably, maybe it's worth paying extra money for the placebo affect, it's not free :)


Edited by Deadeight - 1/7/12 at 6:38am
post #174 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadeight View Post

I would quite like to participate in a blind ABX test myself. Personally I siding with scientific findings on this one, but I'd also like to test some other things, like amps. 

 

 

 

Also, arguably, maybe it's worth paying extra money for the placebo affect, it's not free :)


Yes, I like to have nice kit that makes me feel good and I can boast about to other audiophiles, or puzzle non-audiophiles. That is why I have no issue with people who buy outrageously expensive kit. The issue is with the unscientific claims that often follow,

 

post #175 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by tim3320070 View Post


Silver is "bright" colored, copper is "warm" colored- there's the influence on the perception of sound IMO.

 



Hm - has anyone ever commented on a copper cable, calling it "brighter" than a silver cable they're comparing it to, or vice-versa?

post #176 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post


I've measured the FR differences between copper and silver analog cables, neither type had any notable deviation from utterly pancake flat...

 



 

amazingly, truly amazingly, this evidence is not enough for most people.    What do they really think they are hearing that is so "unmeasurable" which is always the bottom line claim.

 

please someone tell me what you are hearing, especially when you say the bass has increased, or treble has calmed down, - what magic sound are you hearing that you are clearly claiming is frequency response change, but somehow isnt a measurable one. 

 

no need to respond, here is your answer

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #177 of 1186

I'm really not sure the McGurk effect is all that relevant to cables. It's not so much seeing the cable as it is knowing what the cable is. It does demonstrate nicely how easily our senses are fooled, but it's not what causes cables to sound different.

post #178 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Head Injury View Post

I'm really not sure the McGurk effect is all that relevant to cables. It's not so much seeing the cable as it is knowing what the cable is. It does demonstrate nicely how easily our senses are fooled, but it's not what causes cables to sound different.



 

more about demonstrating how easily we are fooled for sure.

 

Though there is so very much evidence of the strength of bias, you need not look far to find insurmountable evidence that comparison without measurements and double blind tests is just rediculous.

post #179 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceTimeMorph View Post


...but you are mistaking "personal experience" from "valid scientific evidence."


To be exact, personal experience is valid scientific evidence.  It's just not sufficient scientific evidence.

post #180 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfoclt View Post

To be exact, personal experience is valid scientific evidence.  It's just not sufficient scientific evidence.

Nicely put!

 

One could also say that measurements and DBT are valid scientific evidence. Just not sufficient scientific evidence.

When all the different evidences (?) are all in full alignment, then we have the answer that nobody can dispute. Other than another head-fier of course.
 

 

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