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Is Sansa Clip + really that good?! - Page 27  

post #391 of 467
And just a general attitude of wanting to enjoy music and not just obsessing over gear...that goes a long way. Maybe that is also a 100% part of the equation.
post #392 of 467

That is one of the reasons I am glad that my ears don't let me use IEMs.....I never have to worry about the whole OI thing.

post #393 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by julian67 View Post

New(ish) measurements of Clip+, iPod Touch 4G and Altmann Tera-Player : http://www.tera-player.com/Tera-Player_RMAA.html


The iPod comes off very badly indeed and I have seen iPod fans who failed to read the whole article get very upset and claim the test is broken.

 

 

Seeing as he never tested them with a headphone load, I'd have to say the iPod fans would be correct.

Here is a test that does include headphone loads: http://home.comcast.net/~machrone/playertest/playertest.htm

 

But in any event, as others have noted, that qualitative test isn't a valid measurement of sound quality, because perfect square waves don't exist in music, and even if they did, an actual headphone isn't going to reproduce them.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/quality-lies-details-page-3

"The squarewave response doesn't give much clue to sound quality, but it does reveal what aspects of overall performance the designer thought most important."

 

The notion that ipods sound bad is incorrect and cliched amongst "audiophiles". The clip+ measures well, but I've yet to see any real proof that it sounds better than an ipod.


Edited by Eisenhower - 5/29/13 at 11:19am
post #394 of 467
Thread Starter 

I think the issue with ipods and apple in general is they are OVERPRICED and are simply average components in a pretty case with a logo and a massive price premium.


Edited by nicholars - 5/29/13 at 11:42am
post #395 of 467
iPods are actually technically very good. Better than most, even.
post #396 of 467
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisenhower View Post

The notion that ipods sound bad is incorrect and cliched amongst "audiophiles". The clip+ measures well, but I've yet to see any real proof that it sounds better than an ipod.

 

You just contradicted yourself. How else is it possible to know if something sounds good from a) measurements b) subjective observations ?

 

a) It measures better

b) people say it sounds better / as good.

 

What more can you ask for?


Edited by nicholars - 5/29/13 at 11:52am
post #397 of 467
Better measurements=better fidelity (subject to certain variations if you are using IEMs and headphones) but for high end speakers this holds.

Better fidelity=better SQ.

Harman laboratories and their countless blind testing on speakers have found that the SQ preferences of individuals are not normally distributed. Instead they associate their favourite preferences with better fidelity which in turn is backed by empirical data. Their anova test results were significant at the 5% level
Edited by uchihaitachi - 5/29/13 at 11:59am
post #398 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

I think the issue with ipods and apple in general is they are OVERPRICED and are simply average components in a pretty case with a logo and a massive price premium.

 

So a $300 32 GB ipod touch, which has apps, the internet, a touch screen, a camera, is overpriced and has a "massive price premium" (because of the logo, you seem to think). What does that make the $1099 tera-player which doesn't even have a pause button?

 

Do you think there is a possibility that you have an irrational hatred for Apple? It's perfectly fine if you don't buy their products, but don't demonize people who do.

post #399 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

 

You just contradicted yourself. How else is it possible to know if something sounds good from a) measurements b) subjective observations ?

 

a) It measures better

b) people say it sounds better / as good.

 

What more can you ask for?

 

Um, blind listening tests. Measurements matter, but they have diminishing returns (for example, you can't hear small differences in distortion). The clip+ measures slightly better than the ipod, so it isn't clear that it makes an audible difference. The ultimate proof is ABX testing.

post #400 of 467
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisenhower View Post

 

So a $300 32 GB ipod touch, which has apps, the internet, a touch screen, a camera, is overpriced and has a "massive price premium" (because of the logo, you seem to think). What does that make the $1099 tera-player which doesn't even have a pause button?

 

Do you think there is a possibility that you have an irrational hatred for Apple? It's perfectly fine if you don't buy their products, but don't demonize people who do.

 

Well frankly that Tera thing is an ABSOLUTE JOKE so that is not even relevant. Most apple products are overpriced in my opinion yes but lets not get into that. I have not "demonized" anyone LOL.... Just said I think they are overpriced and I think that is completely rational.


Edited by nicholars - 5/29/13 at 12:04pm
post #401 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by skamp View Post

iPods are actually technically very good. Better than most, even.

+1


I think the point nicholars is trying to get across is that for a company Apple's size, production costs are negligible and so pricing their products quite high is greedy to say the least.
post #402 of 467
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisenhower View Post

 

Um, blind listening tests. Measurements matter, but they have diminishing returns (for example, you can't hear small differences in distortion). The clip+ measures slightly better than the ipod, so it isn't clear that it makes an audible difference. The ultimate proof is ABX testing.


I know but havn't quite a few people done this already?

post #403 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisenhower View Post

Um, blind listening tests. Measurements matter, but they have diminishing returns (for example, you can't hear small differences in distortion). The clip+ measures slightly better than the ipod, so it isn't clear that it makes an audible difference. The ultimate proof is ABX testing.

DBTs are different from ABX.
post #404 of 467
Thread Starter 

To be fair the ipod touch is one of the more reasonably priced products from apple... Some apple products are a massive rip off though.

post #405 of 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholars View Post

To be fair the ipod touch is one of the more reasonably priced products from apple... Some apple products are a massive rip off though.

My biggest gripe with Apple is how they are so cunningly good at preventing Apple product users from using other companies' products.


Edited by uchihaitachi - 5/29/13 at 12:17pm
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