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Koss Pro DJ 100 - The Budget King - Page 100

post #1486 of 2264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonb View Post

So if I EQ out about 2-4 db of bass they would sound pretty close other than in terms of soundstage? I would just like a portable that sounds somewhat like the Q701. If reducing the bass by about 2-4 db brings them to about even in terms of bass then I think i can deal with that.


When I tried to get them to sound close to each other a few weeks ago I used the "Bass Reducer" setting in Itunes (normally use Foobar) and then increased the treble a bit.

 

It's much easier to get them to sound similar with M50 pads.

 

You can demo them at Best Buy in the pro audio section if needed.

 

I don't love them without an external amp, but I bet they'll sound amazing if you ever use the E17 with a portable setup!

 

The K550 is close to the K701, but sounded much thinner to my ears despite all it's extra bass.

 

EDIT: I should point out that this was done with my main setup. They're considerably worse without an external amp/dac (usually). The Ipod Touch 2G seems good with them though. LOD with that to E17 might be impressive.


Edited by tdockweiler - 2/9/13 at 4:57pm
post #1487 of 2264

The plan would be iPhone 4 with the E17, and the DJ100 with the M50 pads. I would use the EQ on the E17 to reduce the bass a bit to make them sound like the Q701. 

 

I guess i could bring my iphone and e17 to best buy and try a pair.

post #1488 of 2264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonb View Post

The plan would be iPhone 4 with the E17, and the DJ100 with the M50 pads. I would use the EQ on the E17 to reduce the bass a bit to make them sound like the Q701. 

 

I guess i could bring my iphone and e17 to best buy and try a pair.

 

The M50 pads reduce the warmth of the DJ100 a bit due to more air between your ears and the driver. You might even not need to EQ it as much. You might even be OK with just decreasing the low-bass to get it to sound close to the Q701.

 

I think maybe the DJ100 sounds warmer due to having less treble and not so much extra bass.

 

BTW if you do get them see if you have a "Tuesday Morning" in your area. They might still have the Tony Bennett edition for $50. It's the DJ100 with a case, free album and detachable coiled cable.

 

You might not need M50 pads really, but hard to say. I bought mine mostly for comfort, but I'm fine with stock pads now because of them breaking in.

post #1489 of 2264
Bring an extension cord if you wanna test them with your own source at Best Buy... Most have them wired up under the display shelf to multiple splitters etc., much easier to hook up with some extra length.
post #1490 of 2264
Thread Starter 

I think I set a record today for listening to the DJ100 at work. I think I hit about 8 hours total split up into the morning and night. Loved every minute of it and no ear pain with my well broken in ear pads.

 

I noticed something weird today. Since my TBSE's cable is bad I was using a GE Ultra Pro ($9) from Target. It has really good metal shielding and doesn't tangle. It's perfect when used with my ODAC to desktop amp and then a 2nd for the headphone itself. No issues at all.

 

I haven't listened to the DJ100/TB in 6 months I think without an amp for more than a half hour or so. I was trying it with my Ipod Touch 2G with no amp and the bass was slightly bloated. Kind of farty sounding and stuck out too much. It's never like this. Almost like MDR-V6 mid-bass.

 

I switched to my Iaudio 7 and same thing! I then tried connecting my Ipod Touch 2G with LOD cable to my main amps. Sounded like it had similar issues with it's bass. What the heck?

 

I switched to a thinner and cheaper GE $3 cable and it's perfect. Apparently a higher capacitance wire or something too thick can negatively effect the TBSE's bass. This GE from Wal-Mart tangles easily but gets the job done. I might buy one of those from V-Moda cables since it has good sleeving and is thin.

 

So I then tried all my other sources and it's OK. Not as good as the ODAC and a desktop amp, but not too bad. Nothing that sounded too off.

 

With stock pads the Clip+ is kind of too warm to my ears. I loved it with the M50 pads though.

 

You know what else is strange? Despite the Fuze having the same chipset, it sounds not as warm as the Clip+! I think there is always that possibility that there was a revision and some V1s have some differences. I am using Rockbox on my Fuze though. Sounds great with the DJ100.

 

It gets to ridiculously loud volume levels. I'm at about 75% volume levels and was looking around for a volume limiter in Rockbox but I don't think there is one..

 

So far I prefer the Ipod Touch 2G, then the Fuze and then Clip+. Some may prefer the warmer sounding Clip+ or hear no difference between the two.

 

Now the question is, is the Clip Zip Plus as warm as the Clip+? I had it for awhile but don't remember.

 

I haven't listened to my Ipod Touch in a long time and I sure missed it. It sounds really good and nearly as good as my ODAC when used with a LOD cable to my Micro Amp.

 

I still wish I knew why the Fuze's Line Out is so awful..

 

BTW I think a docked Ipod Touch 2G to a desktop amp is really perfect and not limiting anything too much. Obviously my ODAC is better, but it sure is nice being able to use a remote to switch tracks. Why can't Sansa make a Fuze dock with remote? The Ipod Touch 2G sounds really flat to my ears. Sounds much better than the Fuze to my ears, but much colder I think.

 

While listening all day, nothing in the DJ100's signature is sticking out at all. It sounds just as balanced as my Q701 and HD-650. I've always been impressed with it the most (as a portable) whenever I used it with my Ipod Touch 2G and an external amp.

 

EDIT: What's funny is that I'm now not at work and I'm supposed to be sleeping, but the DJ100's sound is just too addicting. I've had this thing for 3 years now and it's still addicting. You know a headphone is something special when you want to stay up until 3am listening to it! The SR-225i was also like that for me..


Edited by tdockweiler - 2/9/13 at 10:02pm
post #1491 of 2264
To my ears these things sound superior to the m50 I used to own, in terms of space and soundstage,
but bass is lesser here, at lower more realistic level.
I think my cups are too wide and leak bass as it sounds better when I press down.

They need an amp to approach the level of midrange realism of the m100, wich they should not even be capable of being compared to!

Although they held up favorably on detail, space and realism,
they fell slightly short by sounding just a bit too flat and thin on the mids, and very slightly hollow in a male vocal "reninsance period" church recording, with alot of resonance and ambiance.

I am being very critical here, as it was my ultimate test in wich headphones with thicker mids pass with more realism, but these headphones were on a level where they seemed to want to be right up there with the best.
They certainly look the part with the metal housings.
In the mids: they also certainly beat other headphones I have owned in midrange presence & tonality, like the monster DNA & Diamond Tears, & the akg tiestos, and my old sony v6 & ath es7...
yet they don't beat the ath esw9 or the vmoda m80 & m100.
I am only talking mids here.
I would not have issue with the flatter, slightly thinner mids,
but the slightly hollow effect is probably a trait from being brighter overall.
They was a noticeable difference switching from my O2amp to my Fiio E11 wich sounded warmer and more pleasing and forgiving.
In fact it was ridiculously good sounding to me then.

I doubt this slight detail issue I had,
would be an issue at all with most other genre of music.
So these are actually a hard headphone to beat.
Many newer headphones can be flashy without being very musical overall.
This one is one of the better more musical ones.
Edit:
I would also describe these as V-shaped headphones wich are not my prefered type .
Edited by Maxx134 - 2/10/13 at 11:22am
post #1492 of 2264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx134 View Post

To my ears these things sound superior to the m50 I used to own, in terms of space and soundstage,
but bass is lesser here, at lower more realistic level.
I think my cups are too wide and leak bass as it sounds better when I press down.

They need an amp to approach the level of midrange realism of the m100, wich they should not even be capable of being compared to!

Although they held up favorably on detail, space and realism,
they fell slightly short by sounding just a bit too flat and thin on the mids, and very slightly hollow in a male vocal "reninsance period" church recording, with alot of resonance and ambiance.

I am being very critical here, as it was my ultimate test in wich headphones with thicker mids pass with more realism, but these headphones were on a level where they seemed to want to be right up there with the best.
They certainly look the part with the metal housings.
They also certainly beat other headphones I have owned in midrange presence & tonality, like the monster DNA & Diamond Tears, & the akg tiestos, and my old sony v6 & ath es7...
yet they don't beat the ath esw9 or the vmoda m80 & m100.
I am only talking mids here.
I would not have issue with the flatter, slightly thinner mids,
but the slightly hollow effect is probably a trait from being brighter overall.
They was a noticeable difference switching from my O2amp to my Fiio E11 wich sounded warmer and more pleasing and forgiving.
In fact it was ridiculously good sounding to me then.

I doubt this slight detail issue I had,
would be an issue at all with most other genre of music.
So these are actually a hard headphone to beat.
Many newer headphones can be flashy without being very musical overall.
This one is one of the better more musical ones.
Edit:
I would also describe these as V-shaped headphones wich are not my prefered type .

 

Thanks for the impressions.

 

Just curious, but have you tried the demo of the DJ100 at Best Buy to see if yours sounds identical or very similar? It's in the pro audio section.

 

That is very strange that they sound slightly V-shaped for you. I've never heard them this way and haven't ever gotten to have them sound hollow. The lower mids are nice and full for me and never too thin. Male vocals are especially good. Have you tried switching sources to see if the same thing occurs? I'm using mine with the Magni/Headroom Micro (both transparent) and ODAC and they still never sound thin. With this setup they actually are fuller sounding with my free Tony Bennett album than the HD-650! Of course I have the Tony Bennett edition, but it should be 100% identical.

 

Some said the DJ100 sounds like it has an upside down U-shaped signature. I totally disagree with that. Mine sounds just as balanced as the HD-650 and Q701. This one has very slightly emphasized bass (less than M50) and a slight peak in the upper mids.

 

I have one idea though and it sounds crazy. Try stuffing some tissue or foam in the edges of the pads or even stretch them out slightly. I've found that sometimes this causes them to sound closer to how they sound with M50 pads. M50 pads are also suggested for classical music, but totally not required. It seems they often sound better when your ears are slightly further away from the driver. Often I've found myself getting a poor seal because my ears were sticking out and I didn't even realize it.

 

Also, I'm not sure how many hours you have on them, but maybe they will sound better after more use. I think someone once told me they were too trebly out of the box for them. I do remember the mids sounding a bit "off" until I hit about 5-6 days of use. I think this is only because they have a titanium coated driver and it needs to break in a bit, but the last two pairs i've had were perfect.

post #1493 of 2264

I'm not gonna quote Doc's big ass post above, but I'll say adding another cable To the TBSE does change the sound slightly as well.  Nothing that will blow you away.  But I switched over to the Cheap Monster icable and it sounds pretty good.   Also for those wondering, The TBSE is actually cleaner/more crisp then the DJ100, I have them both here and no doubt the TBSE is better sounding.  It's not not night and day but the DJ100 is more muffled sounding.  It could be that the removable cable is doing something to the sound?  In stock form (Cable) the TBSE is a little better sounding.  

My test were using the same source etc.  Both sets have about the same usage as well, so one isn't newer then the other.  The TBSE is a little cleaner, the DJ100 a tad darker. 

You can see the FR is a little different between the two as well.  Slightly!!

 


Edited by Magicman74 - 2/10/13 at 12:43pm
post #1494 of 2264

That graph looks terrible. Neither headphone look good there. 

post #1495 of 2264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicman74 View Post

I'm not gonna quote Doc's big ass post above, but I'll say adding another cable To the TBSE does change the sound slightly as well.  Nothing that will blow you away.  But I switched over to the Cheap Monster icable and it sounds pretty good.   Also for those wondering, The TBSE is actually cleaner/more crisp then the DJ100, I have them both here and no doubt the TBSE is better sounding.  It's not not night and day but the DJ100 is more muffled sounding.  It could be that the removable cable is doing something to the sound?  In stock form (Cable) the TBSE is a little better sounding.  

My test were using the same source etc.  Both sets have about the same usage as well, so one isn't newer then the other.  The TBSE is a little cleaner, the DJ100 a tad darker. 

You can see the FR is a little different between the two as well.  Slightly!!

 

 

 

Did you really have to post that graph? biggrin.gif It hurts my eyes!!  I asked someone on another forum why in every graph of it there's this huge dip. They mention that in fact it could be a large peak instead confused_face_2.gif. You can look at the CSD for reference. I'm baffled by why some upper mids peaks doesn't show up in graphs. They've always sounded like they had forward upper mids to my ears. With the Magni they sound a little more balanced though. Male and female vocals on almost every amp sound fairly forward, but not too much. The 598's mids (not upper mids) actually sound more forward. Oh and someone once said dips are harder to hear than peaks. Weird. I don't notice any strange dips on my TBSE.

 

BTW what's interesting is that I once saw some massive dip like that in a very old HD-600 graph.

 

Funny you mentioned cables. Today I was really bored and was trying out different cables for my TBSE. Now i'm not a huge believer of cables and I do believe they can change the tone of a headphone very very very slightly, but still measuring the same. For example, I hate what silver plated copper does for the DJ100 and my Q701. I'm a believer that it's all due to capacitance.

 

A $3 GE is fine, but a DIY Mogami W2893 or Belden 1192A is perfect (both under $1.50 or so per foot). Unfortunately they're too thick so you may need to get the thinner version. I bought a $35 Cardas HP1 cable and it was worth it. It also does not tangle at all ever. The plugs are really large though. It's really bizarre how I've had two cables actually bloat the bass. Can't explain that.

 

That monster cable you have has extremely good shielding. On my noisy Magni it's dead silent.

 

I always wondered if the TBSE sounded a bit clearer, but no way to confirm it. I have never owned both at the same time. They use the same driver of course. Here's something interesting though that might cause a subtle change in sound. On my old DJ100 the inside of the cup had these holes in the cup that were not very deep or down to the metal. On my TBSE the holes are drilled completely down to the metal (deeper). They're a bunch of holes in the cup. I've found that any change inside the cup plays a small role in the sound. Every little thing despite how hard that is to believe. The most notable changes are when something is directly behind the driver (where the holes are). The second area is the little "ledges" in the cups. These ledges are linked to the fabric covered holes surrounding the main driver behind the pads.

 

My old DJ100 had no holes drilled down to the metal. Someone posted a picture and the newer DJ100s have them drilled deeper. Now who knows how they would effect the sound. Sometime I should drill MORE holes down to the metal and see what it does.

 

You could look inside your DJ100 and TBSE and see if the holes are drilled differently, but it's risky and easy to pull out the wires.

 

Great, now you've made me want to get another DJ100. Hey maybe I will get out my drill biggrin.gif

 

I wonder what would happen if you totally exposed the aluminum in the inside cup? My guess is more treble and that's hard to believe. I don't think I'd want to change how the DJ100/TBSE sounds, so I stopped modding them. I've already destroyed a ton of them doing this. You don't want to know how many. It's funny how I did all those mods and stock sounded best. I guess Koss really knows what they're doing.


Edited by tdockweiler - 2/10/13 at 5:03pm
post #1496 of 2264

Their TBSE chart looks odd around the mids, tho the overall look of the chart is similar to what Tyll measured at InnerFidelity:

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/koss-tony-bennett-special-edition-tbse1-headphone-page-2

 

It's not that bad tbh, other than the odd spike after the dip it's not that different to the chart for a lot of other closed portables these days, each one still has it's own unique sound regardless. What I recall from briefly testing them last year actually flies in the face of those charts, I still intend to try 'em out again at some point.


Edited by Impulse - 2/10/13 at 5:21pm
post #1497 of 2264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonb View Post

That graph looks terrible. Neither headphone look good there. 

 

Doesn't match up with what it actually sounds like past a certain point. Should be a peak in the upper mids actually.

I wonder how one would measure if it has the new holes drills down to the aluminum. Maybe it helps cut resonance in some way, but who knows...

 

If the TBSE/DJ100 really sounded if it had such a massive dip there I'd not be using them. What's funny is that you could EQ up that area and make it sound way worse with just a few DB. Like too forward and annoying.

 

I do wonder if it would measure different with M50 pads. It's probably harder to measure due to it's stock pads, but what do I know..

post #1498 of 2264
Thread Starter 

I'm really bored..

 

 

(red line is raw data)

 

post #1499 of 2264

Enjoying the DJ100 out of a NuForce Icon uDAC 2...

 

Currently listening to "The R. In R&B Collection, Vol.1" by R. Kelly

post #1500 of 2264
Thread Starter 

Been listening to my HD-650 tonight for the last few hours. It really does remind me of how each song sounds like on the DJ100/TBSE. This is with my main desktop setup though.

Here's the thing though..the sound is softer, meaning the HD-650 seems to be taking off all those rough edges and making everything more boring. I mean it's almost making my sleepy. I love the HD-650 though! The DJ100 is more likely to get me into the music and if that's a coloration, then so be it. As much as I love the HD-650, it sure doesn't sound like a $500 headphone. Sorry! Remember I said I did like it! It's probably never going anywhere. Maybe I should get my HD-580 out of storage. I prefer that to the HD-600 by far and only because of some stupid grills changing the sound very slightly. Crazy I know. I haven't used my HD-598 in about forever..

 

I'm wondering if anyone who loves the DJ100 also has the 225i? I miss that Grado so much and prefer it to the 325i. I really need to buy it again. The 225i also has some addicting mids. I wonder if the 125i is closer to the 225i or the SR-80? I don't care for the SR-80 and find it to be a downgrade to the DJ100, but it does have nice mids.

 

I have a feeling i'd love the HF2, but maybe not. I can't imagine what the RS2 or RS1 sounds like. Hopefully not like the 325i. A Grado with a touch of warmth would be what I'd prefer.

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