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Koss Pro DJ 100 - The Budget King - Page 89

post #1321 of 2251
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalT View Post

The KRK KNS 6x, and 8x dump all over the DJ 100. Not even close.


Not really true IMO and I hope your kidding. These are rather childish troll-like comments, so I hope you were.

It's funny how you don't even tell us why or how. Maybe you can do us all a favor and review them both.

 

I can't really think of one thing the KRK KNS-8400 does better. Sure some seem to think it has more detail, but I think it's just easy to be fooled.

Sure it does have more treble, but it's just not as fun to listen to. Mine actually feels fairly close to bass light except for a slight upper bass hump and good low bass extension.

I've had at least 3 pairs of the KRKs by now.

 

Sounds to me you just like a different sound signature.

 

With my main setup, the DJ100/TB even holds up very well to my HD-650. It doesn't magically sound worse when I switch to the DJ100. It's of course limited in some areas due to being closed.

I actually think the DJ100 is better than even the Q701 and my 598/600. People seem to think that if it's open and more expensive it's automatically way better. Comparing open to closed headphones is always pointless though.

The DJ100 doesn't have much of a chance against the HD-650 without a good amp and source.

 

BTW I think the biggest difference between the KRKs and the DJ100 is that the DJ100 is much fuller sounding. A lot less fatiguing. The KRKs are amazing for the first few months, then you feel you need something a bit less fatiguing. I can understand why someone might prefer the KRKs. I actually find the DJ100 more balanced sounding. Weird.


Edited by tdockweiler - 12/10/12 at 11:40am
post #1322 of 2251
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kman1211 View Post


Yeah. Exactly, I've only heard two headphones in the sub-$100 range than I could call pretty clear, both were AKGs. One had build quality issues(thus why I don't have them anymore) and the other has knife-like treble(much much brighter than the DT 990). Same, there's a few I thought were absolute trash, I feel stupid for buying them. I'm hesitant to trust this site on recommendations.

 

That's all I really needed to know is if they are clear sounding. If it has more treble than any Sennheiser you have that is a good thing. I don't really like the treble on the Sennheisers I heard, many Senns I don't like much either. Only Senns I heard that I liked were the HD 380 and the HD 600. The HD 650 was mixed, I didn't like the HD 650 I heard too much. Does the HD 598 sound anything like the HD 555/595? The HD 555/595 sounded like trash to me. To me the Senn HD 650 seems to be overrated, at least the one I heard. The owner of the headphone thought the same. I'm not worried about hearing high-end headphones, a friend of mine has tons of high-end phones and audio equipment, so I can make an informed decision on future large purchases thankfully.

 

It doesn't have to be perfectly flat. I don't mind coloration one bit, and a headphone can easily be colored and well-balanced at the same time. I have a cheap hybrid tube amp. I can understand why you can't listen to the Q701 without an amp, I felt the same on the one I heard, it doesn't sound right without an amp. I personally won't listen to my DT 990 Pro without a tube amp, the headphone doesn't sound right otherwise.

 

I'll give the Koss DJ100 a listen at Best Buy when I have the chance.

 

The HD-650 I always disliked. I even went out of my way to buy a new amp for them and the K702. Ended up keeping the HD-600 and later side-grading to the 598. The 598 is a huge improvement over the 555/595 IMO. I had the 555(595 mod) for years and never liked it much. I think the 598 sounds much clearer and perhaps has more forward mids and more treble. It does have less bass than the HD-600 though. It's hard to compare the 555 though since I had that many years ago. I do love the 598 and prefer it to the HD-600. I'd take the HD-580 over the 598 though despite having the same driver. The 598's soundstage is one thing that makes me like it more than the HD-600/555. It's pretty huge, but the soundstage is actually better on the 650 (but not larger).

 

About the HD-650 again...once I got my ODAC I gave it another chance. This pair is very, very well balanced. No mid-bass hump, really good bass extension and no lack of treble like my last pair. There even seems to be a slight hump in the upper mids somewhere! Overall it actually it's just as musical and fun to listen to as my DJ100. My DJ100 actually has more bass, which is bizarre to even say. The 650 with my ODAC is non-fatiguing but not quite as forgiving as it normally should be. Level of detail is pretty high and I always remember the 650 to lack detail.

 

I'm not sure why this pair sounds so balanced. It's really smooth sounding, but is quite warm. It's actually hard to get used to that. What makes no sense to me is that it's bass is actually better than that of the HD-600. Even better controlled. Weird. I think now this is my second favorite headphone behind the DJ100!

 

The only difference between it and the DJ100 for me is that the DJ100 has slightly more forward mids, more treble and a tiny bit more bass. Sometimes the DJ100 seems warmer with some songs, but it could be it's just not as accurate as the HD-650. The DJ100 is actually more revealing and slightly less forgiving than the HD-650. The HD-650 makes all my harsh/bad music sound pretty good..unless it's REALLY awful.

 

I really need to do an HD-650 vs DJ100 comparison review just for my own amusement. As much as I love the HD-650, the DJ100 isn't much worse.

post #1323 of 2251

to my ears the hd650 sounds much more congested than the koss with deeper pads.

post #1324 of 2251
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

 

The HD-650 I always disliked. I even went out of my way to buy a new amp for them and the K702. Ended up keeping the HD-600 and later side-grading to the 598. The 598 is a huge improvement over the 555/595 IMO. I had the 555(595 mod) for years and never liked it much. I think the 598 sounds much clearer and perhaps has more forward mids and more treble. It does have less bass than the HD-600 though. It's hard to compare the 555 though since I had that many years ago. I do love the 598 and prefer it to the HD-600. I'd take the HD-580 over the 598 though despite having the same driver. The 598's soundstage is one thing that makes me like it more than the HD-600/555. It's pretty huge, but the soundstage is actually better on the 650 (but not larger).

 

About the HD-650 again...once I got my ODAC I gave it another chance. This pair is very, very well balanced. No mid-bass hump, really good bass extension and no lack of treble like my last pair. There even seems to be a slight hump in the upper mids somewhere! Overall it actually it's just as musical and fun to listen to as my DJ100. My DJ100 actually has more bass, which is bizarre to even say. The 650 with my ODAC is non-fatiguing but not quite as forgiving as it normally should be. Level of detail is pretty high and I always remember the 650 to lack detail.

 

I'm not sure why this pair sounds so balanced. It's really smooth sounding, but is quite warm. It's actually hard to get used to that. What makes no sense to me is that it's bass is actually better than that of the HD-600. Even better controlled. Weird. I think now this is my second favorite headphone behind the DJ100!

 

The only difference between it and the DJ100 for me is that the DJ100 has slightly more forward mids, more treble and a tiny bit more bass. Sometimes the DJ100 seems warmer with some songs, but it could be it's just not as accurate as the HD-650. The DJ100 is actually more revealing and slightly less forgiving than the HD-650. The HD-650 makes all my harsh/bad music sound pretty good..unless it's REALLY awful.

 

I really need to do an HD-650 vs DJ100 comparison review just for my own amusement. As much as I love the HD-650, the DJ100 isn't much worse.

It sounds like they updated the HD 650 sometime recently. That's good to know about the HD 598. That is weird, a comparison of a new HD 650 and an old HD 650 seems to be in order. I just want a darker and warmer headphone to compliment my DT 990. If all songs were recorded and mastered properly, then the DT 990 will never sound harsh, but thanks to the loudness wars that is not the case. So a headphone that has a darker tone will be ideal for those poor or overly bright recordings that I come across fairly often as long as the song isn't too crappy.


Edited by kman1211 - 12/10/12 at 1:53pm
post #1325 of 2251
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofastreamer View Post

to my ears the hd650 sounds much more congested than the koss with deeper pads.

I had this issue with an older HD-650, but my source wasn't the ODAC. The old pair has much bloated mid-bass that it cause this weird "fog" over the entire sound in very warm recordings.

There is this acoustic recording I have and it just turned it into a big congested mess. This new pair doesn't do that. I can't explain why. This is even with the same source as a test.

 

The soundstage size of the DJ100 varies a lot with pads. It's very interesting how our brains can be fooled like this. With the ODAC and M40 (or M50) pads the DJ100 often sounds like an open or semi open headphone.

Of course it requires specific recordings and a good amp. The DJ100 when made open actually has a soundstage as larger as the HD-598 and this was inside the HD-497 shell!

 

It does seem that the soundstage gets larger depending on how much air is in between your ear and the driver. M50 pads are about perfect, but when you try making the soundstage larger, you sacrifice some of the warmth.

The M50 pads seem to balance this perfectly.

 

I think for gaming and say classical, M50 pads are a good idea. I do feel the M50 is much more true to the recording with M50 pads. You can even compare it to another neutral headphone and test tracks.

Sometimes it's hard to know which one is more accurate. Sometimes I always felt the HD-600/650 made some recordings sound warmer than they should be.

 

Someone mentioned SRH-940 pads on the DJ100. I bought some SRH-1840 pads long ago because I thought they were 100% identical to the SRH-940 pads. I don't know if this is true. They killed the sound of the DJ100 IMO.

I should try to stuff something around the edges to try and fix the bass. The problem is that the bass went missing.

 

I still need to try HDJ-2000 pads, but $40 for leather pads..yuck. I wish Koss could makes us all some memory foam pads already biggrin.gif

 

I'd love to have a Koss headphone that was 99% identical in sound to the DJ100, but without the round cups. This one would have memory foam pads and probably cost a little more. Less portable maybe.

I bet Koss could make an HD-650 killer for half the price that's fully open, but Koss seems to dislike open headphones. They just need to work on making their headphones a tad more comfortable.

 

BTW I'd love to see a close up picture of the K550 driver. Based on memory it looked like a extra large DJ100 driver.

post #1326 of 2251

koss is $50-$70 here. 6x goes for about $49 sale at low and $69 retail. 8x is $119 on average. Sometimes it dips to $79 but usually stays around the ~100 range.

 

The koss aren't very detailed though they separate decently. They struggle to reproduce metal, which the kns series does not. listening to the Koss dj 100 with techdeath, grindcore, faster power metal and shred metal, busier symphonic groups where lots of channels are being played at once, some of the harder djent bands like ever forthright, etc the kns series reproduces very well. especially when it comes to the amount of air they move.

 

listening to ever forthright's first album with the 6x series, i can physically FEEL the snap of the snare drum. The stomp of the kick drum. When the drummer blasts, it is an intense experience. The DJ 100 can't reproduce this, and lags behind. It gets conjested when lots of channels are being played simultaniously. it does fine for some of the other genres of music i listen to. its above average when it comes to imaging from my experience with closed headphones.

 

im not a troll. the dj 100 just isnt as good as you guys believe it is.

post #1327 of 2251
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalT View Post

koss is $50-$70 here. 6x goes for about $49 sale at low and $69 retail. 8x is $119 on average. Sometimes it dips to $79 but usually stays around the ~100 range.

 

The koss aren't very detailed though they separate decently. They struggle to reproduce metal, which the kns series does not. listening to the Koss dj 100 with techdeath, grindcore, faster power metal and shred metal, busier symphonic groups where lots of channels are being played at once, some of the harder djent bands like ever forthright, etc the kns series reproduces very well. especially when it comes to the amount of air they move.

 

listening to ever forthright's first album with the 6x series, i can physically FEEL the snap of the snare drum. The stomp of the kick drum. When the drummer blasts, it is an intense experience. The DJ 100 can't reproduce this, and lags behind. It gets conjested when lots of channels are being played simultaniously. it does fine for some of the other genres of music i listen to. its above average when it comes to imaging from my experience with closed headphones.

 

im not a troll. the dj 100 just isnt as good as you guys believe it is.


Sounds like the DJ 100s are not for me then. If a headphone isn't fast enough to handle metal, then it's not for me. What you described about the DJ100s is exactly what the Brainwavz HM5 does on metal. My DT 990 Pros and my AKG K514 MKIIs have no problem once so ever with metal and not getting congested when a lot is going on in music.

post #1328 of 2251
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kman1211 View Post


Sounds like the DJ 100s are not for me then. If a headphone isn't fast enough to handle metal, then it's not for me. What you described about the DJ100s is exactly what the Brainwavz HM5 does on metal. My DT 990 Pros and my AKG K514 MKIIs have no problem once so ever with metal and not getting congested when a lot is going on in music.


You shouldn't listen to this person and take it as fact. I would still suggest listening to them at Best Buy.

The DJ100 are every bit as detailed as the KRKs, Q701 and my HD-650 as long as you give them a good enough source and amp.

The DJ100 will always be limited if you don't use it with good equipment. I don't mean expensive gear. If someone gave me $100 to magically find some detail on the KRKs that's not there on the DJ100, I probably couldn't do it. The portable sources I use are a bit less detailed than my ODAC. Even my Micro Amp seems to help.

 

The idea that the DJ100 is not good for metal is nonsense to me. For metal (and classical) M50 pads are good to have and suggested. I guess some would prefer to have more treble and give up bass. I wouldn't. I guess everyone has an opinion, so I won't argue, but I can't agree with it.

 

Based on my experience, the DJ100 is good for all genres just like my HD-650/580. If people want the absolute perfect headphone for one genre, then I can understand that.

 

The only time I ever got the DJ100 to sound congested with any music is when I was using a source that was too bassy or warm sounding. I don't even remember what source is was. This is also when the recording itself is warm. If it ever occurs it would probably be straight from a portable player.

 

Wait a minute? Did someone just try to say the KRK KNS-6400 has more bass than the DJ100 and you can actually FEEL it? Wow. The 6400 has pretty close to anemic bass for me. Now i've heard it all.  I mean it's a lot thinner sounding too. The 8400 I have has more bass than the 6400, but requires mods to have as good of bass as the DJ100. The 8400 does have as good of low bass extension as the DJ100 though.

 

Any area lacking with the DJ100 is usually corrected with a better amp/dac. It sounds best on neutral sounding equipment.

 

I really need to do some more comparisons of the DJ100. Maybe vs the 6400/8400 and HD-650. I did do a 8400 vs DJ100 comparison, but it's buried in the forums somewhere. I also tested it against the 598, M50 and SRH-940, V6 and Sextett. SRH-940 even lost out bad. The 650 would beat the DJ100 in a few areas, but it's "only" $500 retail vs a $80 headphone. This doesn't mean much of anything to me.

post #1329 of 2251

i highly recommend you give them a try. It's always better to test before buying.

 

The above poster is definitely experiencing some kind of cognitive bias when it comes to the DJ 100. I have tested my pair on a plethora of different sources, and amps of varying quality, and there is very close to zero change in terms of SQ.

 

My older MP3 players that I didn't bother listing have lower quality DACs, as does my old laptop HP out. My Phone's HP out and my new laptop's HP out are very noisy, but when I run the DJ 100 through my Zune HD, through my USB Dac, through my Pioneer amp, there is literally no difference in SQ. The DJ 100 does not benefit from an amplifier in any way, shape, or form, and does NOT have the level of quality, speed, or separation as the higher-end headphones that tdock is mentioning.

 

These aren't miracle headphones. In terms of SQ, they are average at best in their price range, and if you mostly listen to metal, stay away from these. If you want something in the price range, buy the KGK KNS 6400, or the Audio Technica T400. My preference is the T400. Much better midrange.

 

Also drums are not in the bass frequencies. They are in the lower and middle midrange. That in itself also makes me question your knowledge of sound science.


Edited by CrystalT - 12/11/12 at 2:45am
post #1330 of 2251

I'll have the chance to listen to them on Thursday. I don't listen to only metal, it's roughly 10% of the music I listen to. But I listen enough to enough fast-paced music to know I need a pair of headphones that doesn't choke on it. I'll bring my iPod with my Fiio e11 and see if I can listen to them through my portable system. Two greatly conflicting opinions on the headphones, I'll have to give them a good listen to see if they are worth getting for me or not.

post #1331 of 2251

if you're looking for something in the $50-$70 range imho the best thing you can possibly buy for metal without a sale is the ATH T400.

 

I would like to eventually try out, or buy the T500. The T400, which I got for $63 are BARELY trumped by the m50. I have high hopes for the T500.

post #1332 of 2251
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalT View Post

i highly recommend you give them a try. It's always better to test before buying.

 

The above poster is definitely experiencing some kind of cognitive bias when it comes to the DJ 100. I have tested my pair on a plethora of different sources, and amps of varying quality, and there is very close to zero change in terms of SQ.

 

My older MP3 players that I didn't bother listing have lower quality DACs, as does my old laptop HP out. My Phone's HP out and my new laptop's HP out are very noisy, but when I run the DJ 100 through my Zune HD, through my USB Dac, through my Pioneer amp, there is literally no difference in SQ. The DJ 100 does not benefit from an amplifier in any way, shape, or form, and does NOT have the level of quality, speed, or separation as the higher-end headphones that tdock is mentioning.

 

These aren't miracle headphones. In terms of SQ, they are average at best in their price range, and if you mostly listen to metal, stay away from these. If you want something in the price range, buy the KGK KNS 6400, or the Audio Technica T400. My preference is the T400. Much better midrange.

 

Also drums are not in the bass frequencies. They are in the lower and middle midrange. That in itself also makes me question your knowledge of sound science.

 

Yeah, this is always the way it is on Head-Fi, if I disagree it's always some cognitive bias or placebo nonsense. Instead one should focus on the general consensus of a headphone's sound, not what two people say. I've had the DJ100 for 3 years now and have had 7 pairs, I think I'd know what it "should" sound like. Yes, it's true that we all don't hear the same and the pads alone may alter the sound for different ear shapes etc. People should always check multiple reviews or they'll just waste their money.

 

I guess if the DJ100 has zero change for you with different equipment, you should just leave this hobby because nothing else will either. Nobody is saying it will magically change into something it's not. Most gear measures flat but almost never sounds that way. The changes with different gear are often subtle and not "night and day". Actually going from my Ipod to my main setup is a pretty huge difference. More so than my HD-598 and I don't know why.

 

It's funny that you mention that the DJ100 is not comparable to any higher end headphones. Which ones have you compared them to and how many computer DACs have you tried? Seriously, if you haven't actually tried comparing them you shouldn't even be saying this. It doesn't really help anyone. Using more than one computer DAC is useful too.

 

Nobody is claiming these are miracle headphones. The only claim I ever made was that they hold up very well to my HD-650 with the ODAC and Headroom Micro Amp. I actually prefer them to the Q701 and HD-598. That says a lot. It's not just to sound preference. I think they sound better. If you haven't heard them on the same setup, then you have no right to question my opinion.

 

Yes, we should much rather listen to comments from the person who thinks a Skullcandy headphone is far better than everything else. Makes sense to me. Forget the DJ100 and HD-650, just go and get a Skullcandy Hesh!

 

As to your last comments, maybe you could check into this frequency chart. It would really help. According to you, female vocals are 100% in the upper mid range too I guess.

 

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

 

If they sound congested, you should try another pair. Maybe yours is defective. Maybe your Pioneer amps output impedance is too high for them. My old Technics receiver has a 330ohm output impedance and the DJ100 is fine with this somehow.

 

I now remember that the CD player I used that made them sound muffled and congested was an older Denon from 1993. Not sure why or how. I should have kept that since it might have been good for my Q701. Too bassy for the DJ100.

 

I would like you to pair the DJ100 up with the SCPH-1001 (PS1 with RCA) and see if it doesn't change biggrin.gif That would be impossible! That thing makes everything sound good.

 

I won't derail this thread any more and we can agree to disagree on how it sounds. Best for people to check dozens of reviews to get a general idea of how it should sound. Demoing them is always best.


Edited by tdockweiler - 12/11/12 at 12:33pm
post #1333 of 2251
Skullcandy's actually been building some decent stuff lately, and your defense and rationalization for the DJ100s is starting to come off less as helpful and more as obsessive...
post #1334 of 2251
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Impulse View Post

Skullcandy's actually been building some decent stuff lately, and your defense and rationalization for the DJ100s is starting to come off less as helpful and more as obsessive...

 

Obsessive? Where in my posts have I described them as being the world's most perfect headphone? I like talking about them, even if it means a little friendly argument. If that's obsessive, then OK...

 

When people describe them as totally opposite to how they've always sounded (every single pair) for me, then I have to speak up. It's not to say i'm right and everyone else is wrong. There is also no such thing as a perfect headphone for everyone.

I totally expect some people to not love them. There's a few that have been in this forum who have agreed that they don't benefit from amp or scale up in any way.

 

In case you didn't notice, in my last few posts I told people they should check other helpful reviews and don't just listen to me. It's not too hard to demo them since there seems to be a Best Buy in every big city.

 

Yeah, i'm a DJ100 fanboy, but they're not perfect. If you want, I can list off a few of their problems, but i've already done so in my review. There is just so few negatives and trust me, i'm the most negative (and picky) person there is when it comes to headphones.

Heck, you'd think I'd hate the K702 and HD-600 based on all my comments of those. The DJ100 does more things right for me than any other headphone. HD-650 is pretty close.

 

I'd like to think i'm being more helpful here than a person who claims another headphone "dumps all over them". Whenever someone hates a headphone, they should review it. It's not hard to do. Plenty of people have given the DJ100 bad reviews already. Such as having no bass or whatever else.

 

Yes, the Skullcandy Aviator seems OK in my book. I gave it a listen at Target and it sounded much better than that X-Factor headphone I tried. It IS $150 though (at least locally). Believe it or not I've owned the Hesh, but it was a generic version from Radioshack that some guy on here was raving about at one point. No, I didn't like it and ended up returning it.

post #1335 of 2251

Did you own the original Hesh, or the Hesh 2.0 that was released when they hired Tetsuro?

 

Also your posts are chock-full of absolute obsession, and definite bias. The fact that you're also getting defensive when several members point it out is further proof.

 

Furthermore, you're putting words in to our mouths. It was never implied that you think they're the worlds best headphones, but you are severely overplaying their worth. Comparing them to headphones that out perform them, such as the KNS series, the M50, the ATH T series, or even heavyweights like the high-end AKG and Sennheiser is just absurd.

 

Not attacking you, btw. Just pointing out the truth.

 

Relevant to discussion, has anyone tried doubling up on pads? I'm currently using the skullcandy hesh 2.0 pads, then placing the stock dj-100 pads over them. the first layer of padding acts as a makeshift liberator. Because of the increased driver distance, mid/highs are more focused, and the lower frequencies toned down a notch. soundstage increased because of the increased distance. it is surprisingly pleasing to listen to. i am giving it real, critical listening.


Edited by CrystalT - 12/11/12 at 1:49pm
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