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Etymotic er4p (HF5) have similar/same driver with Audeo PFE?

post #1 of 24
9/10/11 at 6:50pm
Thread Starter 

 

Etymotic er4p (HF5) have similar/same driver with Audeo PFE?

 

Does anybody know if these two earphones have similar balanced armatures? I have a feeling from the measurements that they are quite similar...plus or minus the added impedance...

 

Similar electrical impedance and phase...similar frequency response, THD graph (and of course similar square wave--deducted from frequency response)

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/EtymoticER4PT.pdf

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudeoPFE121GrayFilter.pdf

 

Of course, frequency response can be altered or improved with filters and shape of the earphones..the same with impulse response and square wave...


 

 

comparatie.png

Graphs taken from innerfidelity.com

 

What do you think? It is a coincidence?

 

 


Edited by UtzY - 9/10/11 at 6:52pm
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Etymotic Research HF5 Portable In-Ear Earphones (Cobalt)
Etymotic ER-4P Portable In-Ear Earphones
Phonak Audeo PFE 121
post #2 of 24
9/10/11 at 7:21pm

I think there's clear differences in those graphs. No reason to think they have anything in common other than well designed and both BA. In fact the hf5 and er4p use different drivers and it goes beyond impedance. The story about just not as toleranced for HF5 is just that. A story.

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post #3 of 24
9/10/11 at 7:39pm
Thread Starter 

Let's take that HF5 out of question, it's another story, as you said. biggrin.gif

 

If they (PFE & ER4pt) only had similar impedance I wouldn't be that confused, but it has similar "%THD+noise @ 90dB and 100dB" and they sound quite similar from what I remember... different bass, stronger on PFE but upper mids were weaker than er4p.

 

 I had very little time with both, not in an ideal condition and quite some time ago... and I may be wrong.

 

 

PS: I do believe those HF5 stories! tongue.gif

 

beerchug.gif

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post #4 of 24
9/10/11 at 7:52pm

I have ER4S and HF5 (got the latter as soon as they came out).  Differences are ER4 made in USA vs HF5 made in China.  Hand matched drivers in the ER4, not so in the HF5.  Same drivers.  End of story.

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post #5 of 24
9/10/11 at 8:02pm
Thread Starter 

They have different impedances, it can't be quite the same, unless ER4p have some kind of resistor integrated in the earphone or in the wire, before the driver. The same story with converting ER4p to ER4s using an 75ohms resistor.

 

ER4s - 100 ohms

ER4p - 27 ohms

HF5 -16 ohms

 

Though I do think that they are very similar, if not identical.... just as you said. smile.gif

 

 


Edited by UtzY - 9/10/11 at 8:05pm
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post #6 of 24
9/10/11 at 8:14pm

What are the clear differences? They look very, very similar to me.


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

I think there's clear differences in those graphs. No reason to think they have anything in common other than well designed and both BA. In fact the hf5 and er4p use different drivers and it goes beyond impedance. The story about just not as toleranced for HF5 is just that. A story.



 

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post #7 of 24
9/10/11 at 8:30pm

No, PFE uses a side firing armature an completely different family of armature.

also the armature in the er4 is 3.3ohm before the resistors.


Edited by Nagasaki_Kid - 9/10/11 at 8:32pm
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post #8 of 24
9/10/11 at 8:33pm



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UtzY View Post

They have different impedances, it can't be quite the same, unless ER4p have some kind of resistor integrated in the earphone or in the wire, before the driver. The same story with converting ER4p to ER4s using an 75ohms resistor.

 

ER4s - 100 ohms

ER4p - 27 ohms

HF5 -16 ohms

 

Though I do think that they are very similar, if not identical.... just as you said. smile.gif

 

 



er4/hf5 are different and sound different. Er4 is crisper tighter and scales better. It isn't just channel matching. Different impedance is a different driver and they're also 3db different in efficiency. I'm sure the hf5 was built as a er4 knockoff but they are also more consumer oriented with greater efficiency and friendlier balance.

 


Edited by goodvibes - 9/10/11 at 8:45pm
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post #9 of 24
9/10/11 at 8:36pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagasaki_Kid View Post

No, PFE uses a side firing armature an completely different family of armature.

also the armature in the er4 is 3.3ohm before the resistors.



Heard about this "side firing armature" or "edge-firing" and I actually saw some pictures with it. It looks bigger than a driver that would fit into an er4, but I'm still confused by this coincidence.

I think a picture with both standing side by side would clear my mind tongue.gif


Edited by UtzY - 9/10/11 at 8:44pm
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post #10 of 24
9/10/11 at 8:37pm



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundstige View Post

What are the clear differences? They look very, very similar to me.


 



 


that they don't look the same. They are similar but I wouldn't even call them very similat. The response curves and squares are quite noticably different. Besides, we know that the PFE uses a side firing driver and ETs don't.
 

 

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post #11 of 24
9/10/11 at 8:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post



 


that they don't look the same. They are similar but I wouldn't even call them very similat. The response curves and squares are quite noticably different. Besides, we know that the PFE uses a side firing driver and ETs don't.
 

 


They can't look the same, even the same earphone measured twice don't look the same. As for the edge-firing driver look here at what ClieOS think and what dfkt saw. (he was quoting you tongue.gif) 

I tend to believe that this edge-firing driver is nothing but a marketing scheme, just to look different from the competitors. 

 

Like I said, we need pictures of both side by side to be sure! beerchug.gif

 

 

 


Edited by UtzY - 9/10/11 at 8:58pm
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post #12 of 24
9/10/11 at 9:08pm

In what ways? You're just using generalised terms, nothing concrete. You said the differences are clear, so clearly explain it to me lol.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post



 


that they don't look the same. They are similar but I wouldn't even call them very similat. The response curves and squares are quite noticably different. Besides, we know that the PFE uses a side firing driver and ETs don't.
 

 



 


Edited by soundstige - 9/10/11 at 9:09pm
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post #13 of 24
9/10/11 at 9:28pm

Also according to the pfe appreciation thread link you posted the size looks about to be a knowles CI family driver which is larger and usually used as a bass driver. While the er4 possess an ed family armature which is smaller and usually used for trebles.


Edited by Nagasaki_Kid - 9/10/11 at 9:30pm
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post #14 of 24
9/10/11 at 9:30pm

 Any BA will have similar squares to those but will have different levels of shoot and flatter tops and bottoms depending on low frequency extension.

 I guess the Shure 420 uses the same driver too. In fact its closer to the HF5 than the 4p is if you look at the shoot. LOL. The side firing thing has already been put to rest here after those remarks. The shure 420 is closer to a hf5 or 4p than the Audeo yet its a 2 way that we know uses different drivers. Believe what you like. You asked. I answered. You prefer to wait for the answer you'd like to hear and don't really understand how to interpret a graph. I'm fine with that.

graphCompare.php?graphType=3&graphID[]=1273&graphID[]=833&graphID[]=733graphCompare.php?graphType=4&graphID[]=1273&graphID[]=833&graphID[]=733 graphCompare.php?graphType=1&graphID[]=1273&graphID[]=833&graphID[]=733graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=1273&graphID[]=833&graphID[]=733

 

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post #15 of 24
9/10/11 at 9:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagasaki_Kid View Post

No, PFE uses a side firing armature an completely different family of armature.

also the armature in the er4 is 3.3ohm before the resistors.


Actually PFE doesn't use a side firing armature. Side firing armature (like that on UE super.fi 5 a.k.a. UE600) has a side opening on the BA housing ("side firing"), but the BA on PFE doesn't. On PFE, the BA is the normal type. It is the sound tube in front of the BA that bends 90 degree.

 

Also, ER4 series uses Knowles ED-29689, PFE uses BA from Sonion, so they can not be the same.

 


Edited by ClieOS - 9/10/11 at 9:56pm
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Etymotic Research HF5 Portable In-Ear Earphones (Cobalt)
Etymotic ER-4P Portable In-Ear Earphones
Phonak Audeo PFE 121
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Etymotic er4p (HF5) have similar/same driver with Audeo PFE?