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So what exactly is the point of BA IEMs with more than 2-3 drivers? - Page 3

post #31 of 113

I wont go past 2 or 3 drivers however. I feel thats overkill. one mid one high one low is about it. Or maybe two lows :D

post #32 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

^ I'm lacking the technical background to judge crossovers, but among the multi-BAs I've heard there are only few that I'd consider coherent, so I guess you're right. Besides I'd think that driver selection plays an important role too, since any variance in bass/mid/treble driver signatures will also impair coherence.


I used to believe that as well in terms of coherence and multi drivers esp those with more than 2 drivers. However certain iems sounded perfectly coherent where i was unable to tell where the crossover point is such as my 1964-T. My 6 drivers customs also sound much better than my 3 drivers 1964-T.

 

I lack the technical background but it is my belief that more drivers does not always mean it is better. I don't see posts about the apple dual drivers being better than single drivers like the ER4S. I believe that more drivers has the potential to be better but not necessarily better. A well designed and implemented multi driver earphone imo will beat out a well designed single driver imo. I have yet to hear a single driver beat out any of my current BA based earphones so until that happens I will stick to that belief.

 

post #33 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilzc View Post


 


 

What happens when the conductor (crossover/tuning) is bad? it'll be more obvious with more violinists

 

Also, what happens in the case of CK10? where both violinists play the exact same thing

 

 

It's just an example or analogy. What I'm saying is that more drivers (good ones) gives the individual better separation and accurate sound reproduction. I experienced these myself, not by technical explanations. I don't think you're getting the analogy here. 

post #34 of 113

 

I may as well point out that both music_4321 and Pianist have used the UM3X and ES3X and they're both quite vocal about custom IEM's and multi-BA setups being overrated.

 

Afaik neither of them have tried a different custom IEM.

 

 

post #35 of 113

The idea is that with more drivers, there is alot more focus and weight on proper implementation. Without proper and coherent crossovers, they can actually sound horrible. More so than a single BA. Like they say, you're only as strong as your weakest link.

 

I understand your feeling, like I said, whilst single drivers can project extreme clarity and imagining they never can blow me over like a good multi-way can.

 

Spite the fit issues, Triple.Fi's are still my fav multi way and I thank Jerry Harvey for that.

post #36 of 113

I think the crossover synergy is waaay over-rated.  I have yet to hear a multi-driver that had terrible coherency.  And if I did, I would probably attribute it to poor fit which should be a bigger concern.

post #37 of 113

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post #38 of 113
Thread Starter 

Guys, remember that my original question was why manufacturers decide to put more than 2-3 BA drivers in their IEMs. I agree that one BA driver, even if it is really good, cannot cover the full audio spectrum. That's just the limitation of the BA driver. However, shouldn't 2 or 3 be enough to cover the full spectrum perfectly fine? I see some flagship customs today with only 3 BA drivers like the EM3 Pro from EarSonics and apparently some claim that they sound as good if not better than the 6-8 driver ones from UM and JH Audio. Someone, I think mark2410, said that the extra drivers may help smooth out the sound at the crossover points and that does make sense to me, although I have a hard time imagining how this could be done. Anyone else agree or disagree with this idea?

post #39 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

I think the crossover synergy is waaay over-rated.  I have yet to hear a multi-driver that had terrible coherency.  And if I did, I would probably attribute it to poor fit which should be a bigger concern.

Well, maybe, but the burden o' proof is -- IMO -- always on the subjective reviewer/commenter. I want a little more scientific proof ... E.g., THD ... now, THD ain't everything ... but it's something, and a place to start....

graphCompare.php?graphType=1&graphID[]=2731&graphID[]=3251

 

graphCompare.php?graphType=1&graphID[]=743&graphID[]=3251

 

Since customs is where the numbers game seems to be played, we're pretty much outta luck: I don't see a whole lot of scientific measurements coming for $$ custom IEMs 'cause not many laboratory reviewers are going to pay for molds -- even for IEC standardized (averaged) ears. E.g., I don't see any at Head Room, IF, sonove, etc. Not sure if JH or UE are willing to throw their in-house lab graphs our way (does anyone have access to these?).

 

post #40 of 113

 

Doesn't a motorbike with higher specs perform better than an average motorbike?

 

Isn't a 6 cylinder motorbike better than a 2 cylinder?

 

Isn't a 600cc engine better than a 200cc engine?

 

It depends if you can drive it or not, maybe if you listen to it you will crash and your head will explode.

 

post #41 of 113

We only have 1 eardrum per ear. We don't need multiple speakers per ear. tongue_smile.gif

post #42 of 113
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

 

Doesn't a motorbike with higher specs perform better than an average motorbike?

 

Isn't a 6 cylinder motorbike better than a 2 cylinder?

 

Isn't a 600cc engine better than a 200cc engine?

 

It depends if you can drive it or not, maybe if you listen to it you will crash and your head will explode.

 

 

But audio drivers are not motorbike engines. They work completely differently. I don't see how you can compare them. What is the motorbike engine equivalent of phase shifts and incoherent performance in headphone drivers?

post #43 of 113

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tronz View Post

We only have 1 eardrum per ear. We don't need multiple speakers per ear. tongue_smile.gif


Then why is 5.1 and 7.1 so much more popular than 2 channel ?

 

Is your auditory nerve a single strand, or multi-strand?

 

If you go to the zoo... do you hear the animals in 2 dimensions? I hope you can hear in 3D... or you won't know which way to look when that lion jumps on you and eats your lunch.
 

 

post #44 of 113

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

 

But audio drivers are not motorbike engines. They work completely differently. I don't see how you can compare them. What is the motorbike engine equivalent of phase shifts and incoherent performance in headphone drivers?


I've never heard phase shifts or incoherent performance, just like I'm sure a motorbike driver can't detect subtle things happening in the fuel combustion, and 4 full-size speakers in a room with a 2 channel signal will always sound better than 2 full-size speakers in a room with a 2 channel signal.
 

 

post #45 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

 


Then why is 5.1 and 7.1 so much more popular than 2 channel ?

 

Is your auditory nerve a single strand, or multi-strand?

 

If you go to the zoo... do you hear the animals in 2 dimensions? I hope you can hear in 3D... or you won't know which way to look when that lion jumps on you and eats your lunch.
 

 


Lmao, I love big cats, but it's the complex shape of our outter ear that helps the brain determine where the sound waves came from. You can get 7.1 surround sound from a 3.5mm stereo output with stereo headphones. Wanna know how? A dolby headphone processor. It works wonders with my ES5's! smile.gif


Edited by Tronz - 9/13/11 at 12:21pm
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