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So what exactly is the point of BA IEMs with more than 2-3 drivers? - Page 8

post #106 of 113

 

Currently, I don't have enough experience to answer that.

 

 

 

post #107 of 113

 

Can someone please tell me (or speculate, if you wish) why the CK10 is the best sounding TWFK, and also the one that from what I've been told does not use a crossover?

 

 

post #108 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

 

He linked to a graph at sterophile that is drawn in mspaint of three different drivers being measured overlapped on top of eachother and is implying the strange looking nature of that picture is some kind of proof that multi-BA setups are inherently flawed and rejoicing over the science of mspaint versus subjective errata.

 

You on the other hand rejoice over subjective errata and discredit my suggestion that if we were listening to the same music on the same DAC then we wouldn't be so bitchy at eachother.

 

I also pointed out a couple patterns for example you [Pianist] and music_4321 have used the same custom IEM's and have similiar opinions, it's good to find patterns and be humble, don't you think you should try a different custom IEM?

 


Not quite. When it comes to the ES3X (and other IEMs, for that matter) Pianist and I do NOT "have similar opinions" - quite the opposite, in fact.

 

Pianist is the only person (I know of) who has severely criticised the ES3X on numerous occasions. There was a time when I pointed out to him several times that he might have needed a refit or that there could be something wrong with his set (eg driver failure) as he was the ONLY ES3X owner who was not happy with his customs and said they sounded terrible. He would often post about how bad the ES3X was; in those days he never said "in my opinion", BTW, or made it clear that he never tried to make sure there ware no fit and/or technical issues - I, myself, needed 3 refits (4 sets). In fact, Pianist has expressed the view that almost any universal he's heard (no matter how cheap or expensive, DD or BA) is better than the ES3X.

 

I, on the other hand, still find the ES3X to be the best sounding IEM I've heard along with the EX1000. I don't prefer one over the other. One thing I do like more about the EX1000 over the ES3X is the coherency along the whole freq range, but the ES3X has what I call 'authority' in its sound presentation the EX1000 doesn't quite have to the same extent. These differences (coherency & authority) are not night & day but rather subtle. If I could sell my ES3X and got a good price for them, I would NOT sell them - that's how much I still love them after nearly 2.5 years with them.

 


Edited by music_4321 - 9/16/11 at 1:36am
post #109 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post




Not quite. When it comes to the ES3X (and other IEMs, for that matter) Pianist and I do NOT "have similar opinions" - quite the opposite, in fact.

 

Pianist is the only person (I know of) who has severely criticised the ES3X on numerous occasions. There was a time when I pointed out to him several times that he might have needed a refit or that there could be something wrong with his set (eg driver failure) as he was the ONLY ES3X owner who was not happy with his customs and said they sounded terrible. He would often post about how bad the ES3X was; in those days he never said "in my opinion", BTW, or made it clear that he never tried to make sure there ware no fit and/or technical issues - I, myself, needed 3 refits (4 sets). In fact, Pianist has expressed the view that almost any universal he's heard (no matter how cheap or expensive, DD or BA) is better than the ES3X.

 

I, on the other hand, still find the ES3X to be the best sounding IEM I've heard along with the EX1000. I don't prefer one over the other. One thing I do like more about the EX1000 over the ES3X is the coherency along the whole freq range, but the ES3X has what I call 'authority' in its sound presentation the EX1000 doesn't quite have to the same extent. These differences (coherency & authority) are not night & day but rather subtle. If I could sell my ES3X and got a good price for them, I would NOT sell them - that's how much I still love them after nearly 2.5 years with them.

 


You should give the ES5's a try. It might incorporate the (coherency & authority) you seek making you sell off both the ES3X and EX1000.

 

post #110 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

 

So what do you think is the point in adding more drivers to IEMs then? Is it to make the sound more fun?



 

Refer to this explanation below. Sylafari explained it well and objectively.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylafari View Post



Supposedly what one does is have for instance insert name of some three BA IEM, take one for low frequency use crossover to limit that BA to lower frequencies, repeat for mids and highs and try to optimize each segment to be as flat as its frequency response can be.
 

 



 

post #111 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

That's why the EX1000 is 16mm and has an angled magnesium housing and everything else, Sony are trying to push the limits of a single CPU, and succeeding.

 

 


mate, you don't even own one lol... why keep saying it's omg the best evur?


as for the thread, oh god, I've never seen so many bad analogies... cars, bikes, cpus, violins... give me 1/2 hour back...

Just get someone like Tyll to measure some multi-ba IEMs vs high-er end single BA and dyn driver IEMs and look at the graphs.

To top it off, not a lot of people can A/B tell phase differences. I certainly can't via the blind A/B site, or don't know what to listen for. (re crossovers via caps/resistors).
If the advantage is having multiple drivers to be able to tune the FR response, while not straining a single driver, I don't see why not.
(I didn't really like my SM3v2...at all, but I did enjoy a SM3x6 UM reshell/driver upgrade (customized to a-la miracle FR) (on the other hand I also enjoyed Aero quite a bit, despite the very different sound flavour (mids and lows))

If you look at the single BA FR graphs, it's pretty doubtful you can tune them like that.

So unless you have visible THD+N and FR artifacts from the crossover (like AKG K340 Dyn/ES does)....

As for 2+ BA without cross-overs, Idk, I guess I'll have an opinion when I hear one. (I don't really like the idea, at least for low end drivers... ). Mostly because I don't understand the mechanism and implications of not limiting the frequency into a driver (I suppose it's naturally limited via lots of roll-off from the driver itself past a certain frequency, as you can easily see in some driver graphs for BAs)
post #112 of 113

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by svyr View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

That's why the EX1000 is 16mm and has an angled magnesium housing and everything else, Sony are trying to push the limits of a single CPU, and succeeding.

 

 


1. mate, you don't even own one lol... why keep saying it's omg the best evur?


as for the thread, oh god, I've never seen so many bad analogies... cars, bikes, cpus, violins... give me 1/2 hour back...

2. Just get someone like Tyll to measure some multi-ba IEMs vs high-er end single BA and dyn driver IEMs and look at the graphs.

3. To top it off, not a lot of people can A/B tell phase differences. I certainly can't via the blind A/B site, or don't know what to listen for. (re crossovers via caps/resistors).
If the advantage is having multiple drivers to be able to tune the FR response, while not straining a single driver, I don't see why not.
(I didn't really like my SM3v2...at all, but I did enjoy a SM3x6 UM reshell/driver upgrade (customized to a-la miracle FR) (on

4. the other hand I also enjoyed Aero quite a bit, despite the very different sound flavour (mids and lows))

If you look at the single BA FR graphs, it's pretty doubtful you can tune them like that.

So unless you have visible THD+N and FR artifacts from the crossover (like AKG K340 Dyn/ES does)....

5. As for 2+ BA without cross-overs, Idk, I guess I'll have an opinion when I hear one. (I don't really like the idea, at least for low end drivers... ). Mostly because I don't understand the mechanism and implications of not limiting the frequency into a driver (I suppose it's naturally limited via lots of roll-off from the driver itself past a certain frequency, as you can easily see in some driver graphs for BAs)


1. I just used it as an example since everyone thinks it's the best dynamic driver at the moment... I've listened to it and decided it's not for me (versus the EX600).

 

2. There's already plenty of graphs of multi-driver universals vs single driver at sonove, FR graphs are overrated anyway, Just earlier today someone compared graphs of Ultrasone HFI-580 versus Shure SRH-940 with headroom graphs and they had the exact same bass (while it's totally different in reality, AFAIK)...

 

3. I don't even know what phase difference is, if there's a site about it plz link it here.

 

4. I take it you listened to them all at the meet in Sydney, why the Aero?

 

5. According to Sony's [if that's what you're talking about] descriptive graphs, there isn't extreme natural roll off on the drivers, they're all overlapping eachother, especially on the XBA-4 where three drivers are overlapping in the sub-bass.

 

 

 

post #113 of 113
2 - some links please. re graphs overrated - have a look at some aes confs, fr + phase + thd-n + impulse response + impedance vs fr, are more than adequate to quantitatively describe audio equipment and to then partially anchor a particular set to sound sig. fr alone - maybe not so much.

3 - do a search, there should be a link to a blind a/b test site (vol, pitch, phase). unfortunately, i failed to bookmark it, but it should be floating about.

4 - haven't attended this syd meet. i had the demo aero and mage demos for a few weeks. had the custom sm3x6 for about a month. Don't really get how people can draw conclusions from hearing gear in meet conditions.
Edited by svyr - 9/20/11 at 4:33pm
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