SR71B balanced INPUT? - Page 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jalo 

Qusp, I understand the above post and I agree with what it states.  Let me rephrase it using the above wording to see if it makes sense.  The Crystal Piccolino cable is "a balanced line or balanced signal pair [that] is a transmission line consisting of two conductors of the same type, each of which have equal impedances along their lengths and equal impedances to ground and to other circuits."  The Piccolino has two equal conductors that is why they can carry the +/- signal in a balance configuration without channel imbalance.  The outside conductor in the Piccolino is not designed to be used as ground even though they could.  This is different from unbalance lines or coaxial cable because their second conductor is either connected to ground or is not equal in impedance to the other conductor hence the term unbalance lines.  My understanding is that the Piccolino has two equal conductors therefore meeting the requirement of a balance line.

are you sure you are talking about piccolino? have you actually ever stripped and seen the inside? they are not 2 equal conductors, the center conductor is something less than 30awg stranded electrum (silver/gold alloy) and i would hazard a guess that the outside, which is very much a shield or ground connection, is more like 22-20awg and pure silver, thats a pretty extreme difference.

see i actually think you know what should be a balanced line, but are under the impression that the inside of piccolino is totally different to what it actually is. there is a single center conductor, not 2 and it is surrounded by a shield, which like any coaxial cable, if connected at both ends can be used ,for whatever you like, mostly ground, but not ideal for an equal and opposite phase because its a completely different size and balanced lines should be twisted too, thats the lesser thing here though, its the totally different impedance seen by both the sending and receiving end of the cable

here it is

anyway i'm done, i dont want to argue any further and this has gone on far too long, ive repeated myself too many times and it was off topic the first time, i dont think i would have had to though had you known what the structure was actually like

what haha yep, i can actually tell all of that without listening, see i actually have some understanding and practical experience of how the cables and circuits interact with each other and why certain rules should be followed if possible, having made numerous balanced dacs and amps for myself, including my diy portable dac which is wired internally with piccolino and yes i have indeed tried a single strand to save on wire before and havent liked the results.with headphone cables the problem is larger due to the length and thus larger difference in overall impedance between the condctors

no he doent, or if he does hes having lots of difficulty explaining it, because he states that there are 2 equal conductors, which clearly is not the case

bye, i cant believe ive stayed up past when i left to actually go to bed arguing about something that is so well experienced and documented.

Qusp, I think you conducted yourself well in the discussion and I don't think we are arguing as much as trying to understand the subject matter at hand.  I hope I didn't come across as argumentative, and if that is the case I apologize.  Sorry I didn't clarify myself clear enough but Parrots is right when I say the Piccolino has two equal conductors, I really meant it to be two equal conductors in function (i.e impedance and may be others).  I of course know the inside construction of the Piccolino, as I am trying to build a RSA adaptor and connect the Piccolino to a female RSA connector.  I saw that picture a few times before and if I remember correctly it was from Parrots.  I, of course, also talking out of my area of knowledge as I have no inside or direct knowledge of the research that have gone into the development and construction of the Piccolino.  But this much I do know which is the two conductors acted equally to the same earpiece/driver/channel hence they function equally to me. Materially they are clearly not the same but functionally they seem to function equally well hence they have to have the same functional property.

You clearly seem have more knowledge in building balance amp/dac than me, because I have build none.  However, there is an analogy I like to share in this scenario.  There is a rich man who installed and spent over half a million dollars, state of the art, the most advance fire alarm and prevention system developed by scientists at MIT in his house and one day his neighbor runs down the street and tells him that his house is on fire, at that moment, this rich man started to argue and explain how it is not possible because of all the science and technology that went into the system.  The point is that it really doesn't matter the theory and principle of why it works or doesn't work.  The fact remains is that the house is on fire, you either believe it or you don't.  My point hopefully if I can communicate accurately to you is whether the Piccolino in theory can be used as balance cable or not is besides the point.  The fact remains that it is done and it is working beautifully.  Not only is it a fact that it is done, you can literally buy it from several vendors and they sounded beautifully.  I have the SAA voice (a $1500.00 cable) for my HD800, and my balance Piccolino actually sounded better.  I am not arguing in theory or principle whether the coaxial cable can be used for balance application or not.  All I am saying is that the Piccolino has been used for balance application.  Hopes that clarify my point.  But I do appreciate the information you posted.

Just because...its fun :-)

Comparing inches of wire on LODs and mini-minis for portable setups is like trying to decide what model of spark plug to put in your Honda Civic.  Full size headphone cables you may be able to hear a legit difference.  And on full-size amplification.  I don't even know why I bother with my portable setup, when my home setup is so kickass.  It's futile to try to make the battery powered gear sound as good, but I sure waste a lot of cash trying.  

Edit: So to answer your question, you're more likely to get the full effect of whatever sound the Piccolino might have on a headphone cable than on the ancillary items.  It's a longer signal path.  More space for stuff to happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootermafia 

Comparing inches of wire on LODs and mini-minis for portable setups is like trying to decide what model of spark plug to put in your Honda Civic.  Full size headphone cables you may be able to hear a legit difference.  And on full-size amplification.  I don't even know why I bother with my portable setup, when my home setup is so kickass.  It's futile to try to make the battery powered gear sound as good, but I sure waste a lot of cash trying.  

 

Edit: So to answer your question, you're more likely to get the full effect of whatever sound the Piccolino might have on a headphone cable than on the ancillary items.  It's a longer signal path.  More space for stuff to happen.

Hehehehe, it is the reverse for me.  "I don't even know why I bother with my desktop setup, when my portable setup is so kickass."    

You are right though in saying that the headphone cable will and should have more effect on the sound not only because it has more cable but it is the closest piece to your head.  
 

What, now you don't even trust you own ears?  Be brave, put them on your head and let your heart decides.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Girls Generation 

Why don't you guys just send him a loaner to have him compare, instead of all this e-arguing?

why? ive already done my comparisons long ago, you do realize ive been using this wire since the user formerly known as parrots was even a member right? somewhere you picked up that i havent used it for headphone cables, i have, i just wouldnt for my current setup. scooter is right, headphone cables are where you will hear the most difference here. i dont need to prove my point, its already proven. so no more arguing, plus i'm delighted i wont need to put up with the trolling anymore..

also Jalo, yeah your portable rig is pretty sweet, but i can tell you, no matter how good it is, i dont believe there is anything on the market that compares to a really high end home rig. in my case i have built for myself what is basically a high end homerig and made it transportable and i still prefer my home rig, you just cant spare the current needed for high end class A discrete circuits in a portable situation. my dac dissipates nearly 60W with a 90v point to point psu and 130ma class A bias on the mosfets for its line level output and the heatsink for the iv stage weighs nearly 2kg; then theres the amp.....

Qusp, I hope you don't think I was serious for a moment;-).  I of course agree with you.  How can I compete with BHSE, B22, and the like.  I was merely giving scooter a hard time just for fun.  Having say that, my portable does compare quite well with many desktop system regardless.  Especially when I am on a plane going oversea, you bet I know I have the best system on the entire plane.  I even have beautiful flight attendants coming up to me wanting to hear what I am listening to ;-)   I admire you for knowing how to build you own stuff and thanks for sharing what you know.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Girls Generation 

I've heard CLAS - iBasso DB2 - RSA SR71B - LCD2 in balanced input and output mode can compete with a good desktop rig; impressive, as this thing is completely transportable and battery powered... and cheaper? But ofcourse, something like the Leben, Apex, or Darkstar is out of range. :P But I bet you, you can't carry that around with you wherever you go listening to it

GG, let me do the math for you and lets see how cheap this portable rig is when compare to the desktop counterpart.

Lossless music--Priceless

Ipod/Ipad2--$1,200.00-$40.00 s/h

Ipod to CLAS cable--$140.00

CLAS Solo--$579.00+$30.00s/h

CLAS to DB2 (Kimber D60 Illumination all silver/platinum custom interconnect)--$350.00

DB2--299.00 + $30.00 s/h

DB2 to SR71B Balance cable (Moon audio Silver Dragon)--$85.00 + 15.00 s/h

RSA SR71b--$650.00 +$30.00 s/h
SR71b to JH13/16 Crystal Piccolino cable--$1,100.00 +$30.00 s/h

JH13/16--$1,150.00 + $100.00 (ear impression) + $40.00 s/h

LCD2--$995.00 + $400.00 (after market cable) + $40.00 s/h

Balance adaptor to RSA connector--$200.00

Hehehe, the total comes to $7204.00.  yea I know you can probably trim some stuff off.  It may not be as much as Warp08's desktop system or the Orpheus or the BHSE/Stax009 system, but its is no joke either.