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post #691 of 2812

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsnuts View Post

Well there is a reason why the M50s are so popular. The mainstay of the audiophile community and a very highly ranked can. Are these better than them.?.It is just a matter of opinion and preference but what these will do is provide a nice addition to your favorite.. I do have a feeling however that you might end up liking these a bit more than your M50s. For $30 everyone should have one. 

 

PCHU on board.!  Damn guys..That is like 6 to 7 deadfiers a day and growing.  You guys are keeping me busy. Lol!! Enjoy your new cans.. You are gonna love the bass on these. 

 


To tell you the truth, I LOVE the Pannies compared to the M50s.

 

Background.

A couple of years ago a friend of mine and I bought our first "more-than-a-hundred-dollar" cans

and I got the Shure 440s while he got the M50s.

 

I have to say, I didn't like the M50s that much due to the slightly veiled mids.

Bass had definitely more presence but other than that I prefered the Shure sound signature.

We both tried them after hundreds of hours of "burn" (just in case you ask...) we reached the same conclusion.

 

I recently tried them again (M50s) to test/compare to the Monoprice cheapo phones.

I definitely prefered the M50s a bit over the Monoprice DJ phones but not by a lot.

I thought the Monoprice/Kickers performed admirably for just being $22 but it wasn't as

detailed.

 

These Pannies I believe are better (to my ears at least) than both the M50s and Monoprice but

what surprised me is the value.! Note that I also prefer the pannies to my Shure 440s which I love

to death! ;-)

 

Anyway, point is, I agree with you Dsnuts, EVERYONE that loves bass but wants to

be able to listen to every genre (even if they DONT excel on every one) SHOULD try these!


;-)

 

 

P.S. My third set is on its way...

 

post #692 of 2812
Does anyone know where the cheapest place to buy these online and shipped to Australia?
post #693 of 2812
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelocks View Post

 

I do have some cheaper Sony IEMs... they are not the best ever of course but I just don't like

how IEMs feel in my ears!! lol. I don't doubt that they will be able to reproduce music

greatly, it's just that I have never gotten used to them (and probably never will ;-)). 

 



I am a lifelong audiophile (for reference, I'm in my 40's) but a newcomer to high fidelity headphones. My first quality headphones were IEM's (Etymotic Research ER-6i) that I purchased about 5 years ago and still enjoy today in some situations (1)*. So here's my take.

 

Loudspeakers are the best choice for music reproduction because they are more capable of reproducing a live performance thanks to room acoustics and having (usually) large transducers. Sound comes at you from all directions, with delay and physical impact. Your brain interprets auditory information not just through the auditory nerves, but your entire vestibular (inner ear) and proprioceptive (skin, bones and muscles) system. Subtle time/phase/reverb/volume/and physical sensations are all interpreted by the brain when listening to music through speakers.

 

Headphones obviously cannot stimulate the sensory systems like speakers do, so naturally, there is much less realism involved in headphone listening. However, compared to IEM's, headphones can (and do) offer at least a little bit of outside the ear acoustics (the sound waves interacting with the earcups are an example of this, which is why changing the pads or covering vents changes the sound signature). I still prefer loudspeakers when I listen to music because I find the "inside your head" signature of headphones to sound unnatural. On the plus side, headphones are more intimate sounding and can reveal details lost in room acoustics. For this reason, I sometimes prefer listening to headphones when I want this experience - or perhaps with some electronic music.

 

So, what about IEM's? They are the ultimate headphone. No ear cups, so much less wave interaction. With the possible exception of some high-end IEM's (and I'm not talking about earbuds (2*) - just proper IEM's that SEAL inside the ear canal), the sound is directly piped into your ear canal and so the sound is all right in the middle of your skull. When people in other threads talk about soundstage WRT headphones and IEM's in particular, I take it with a large grain of salt. The great thing about IEM's however is the seal. A good tight seal pressurizes the ear canal and that tiny, incredibly efficient transducer (or transducers in more expensive models) is capable of generating fantastic low frequency response. The seal also blocks outside noise more effectively than all but the tightest clamping over the ear headphones. And of course, they are very portable too. In my opinion, there are two negatives with IEM's. The first, for some people, is comfort. I've been using earplugs for almost 20 years at work (I'm a pilot and wear communication earplugs under my helmet), so they don't bother me at all. I actually find the feel reassuring. Most anyone will grow accustomed to them in time, but some people have a hard time getting there. Plus, everyone's ears are a different size, so the material and size of the plug is critical to getting a good comfortable fit and tight seal. This takes some experimenting, which not everyone has the patience to do. The second problem with IEM's is bone conduction. Since the earphone is physically touching your ear and putting pressure on cartilage and/or bone, you "hear" every movement of your body that moves the wires.

 

(1*) I like to wear my IEM's underneath noise-cancelling earphones when I travel commercially because they sound much better than any noise cancelling headphone (I use Bose) and I get double noise reduction.

 

(2*) Earbuds don't seal inside the ear so they don't pressurize. For this reason, they lack bass response and sound tinny.

 

Sorry, that was long-winded and a little ff-topic. Not my intention, but it's a subject I'm interested in, but far from an expert.


Edited by palmfish - 10/19/11 at 7:29am
post #694 of 2812

Heya,
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

So MalVeaux, have you modded yours yet? Too busy playing Baldur's Gate?


I modded one of my pairs. Yes. And listened to it for more than 5 minutes. And yea, I was doing nothing but playing Baldur's Gate. That's all I do. rolleyes.gif

 

Opening the HTF600:

 

You can open the headphone without tools (ie, screwdriver). I did it with the flat blade of a knife. There are little snaps that simply need to be pushed. There are four of them. Just press them down with the top of a flat blade or instrument, and pry it off. I did it several times and nothing broke. So it's not that delicate. Just go for it.

 

HTF600_Modded_01.jpg

 

HTF600_Modded_02.jpg

 

Taking the driver from the back-plate is a similar process. It too has four snaps. Just push them back and the driver will pop right off. Again, I did this several times and it didn't loosen anything or break.

 

HTF600_Modded_03.jpg

 

HTF600_Modded_04.jpg

 

Per RPGWizard, I pulled off the cloth cover from the back driver vent. I then blu-tacked the vent on the sides and top, leaving only the bottom vent. I didn't bother plugging the other vents (around the perimeter). I might try that later just to see what it does. But you can do that from the outside anyways (so no need to open it). This particular only needed you to open the driver house because the cloth is there. And the point is to take it out to see what it does. Vent plugging can be done from the outside without opening your headphone if you want to just try that.

 

HTF600_Modded_05.jpg

 

HTF600_Modded_07.jpg

 

HTF600_Modded_06.jpg

 

Snap it all back together. Nothing is loose. It's back how it was. No biggie. Very easy to open and close.

 

HTF600_Modded_09.jpg

 

Here you can see the vent plugged compared to the "dark" area with no plug. Also, adding velour pads.

 

HTF600_Modded_08.jpg

 

Time to compare them. I have two sets. And I have velour pads.

 

Sonic Changes:

 

At first, I did not hear a big difference. So I just kept trying different songs to see where the changes were. I started noticing in quiet music like piano and acoustic that I could hear more of the "noise" that is associated with live recordings. Hearing that, I know that it's allowing more detail/mids/highs to come through. Note: bass did not change at a level that I could really notice. So far, it seems the mids and detail have come up a notch. Nothing huge. Nothing crazy. Just a bit. I only noticed it on live recording tracks. In loud music that is energetic and full of complex sound, I couldn't really tell much, but it does have a lot of mids present. When I A-B compare my two pairs with the same pleather pads (no velours on), they sound virtually the same, except the modded pair does seem to have a little more energy in the mids, so it's a little more forward to me. But again, only a little. I don't think it's a drastic change. But it's noticeable if you test and if you A-B with another pair. Why this occurs from the venting change, I do not know. It may have more to do with the cloth removal (much like Grado mods that remove the cloth inside their driver house too). So if nothing, I think that might be the source of change, not the vent changes. I'll try a few more things to see ultimately what does what as time goes on.

 

After that, I threw the velours back on.


I love the sound of them with the bump in mids & velours. Great headphone. Tons of mids, good smooth treble, and it still has that warm smooth impactful deep bass.

 

HTF600_Modded_10.jpg

 

Very best,

post #695 of 2812

I'd rather use electrical tape if doing it on the inside and leaving as that. Blutak might lose its grip/stickiness over time. Hmm... I never removed that plastic "ring" part on mine, don't even noticed any such part on mine. Remember the amount you cover will affect the sound quite a bit. When I compared covering it completely with my hand and removing back and forth it was such a huge change in sound between the two. Leaving the bottom opening is probably sufficient, I left a little bit more, also a small part one of the sideholes for possibly slightly better soundstage.

 

You don't think there's any decrease in bass reverb though?


Edited by RPGWiZaRD - 10/19/11 at 8:06am
post #696 of 2812

@ MalVeauX

 

 

First of all thank you and Dsnuts for your reviews, info, pictures and help you are providing to head-fi community.

 

Recently I did order 2 pairs of HTF600 from amzon.com, however I’m not sure if I did the right thing and I would like to hear your $0.05 before refusing to accept the package and getting money refund.

 

Is the HTF600’s sound leakage as bad as on my current AD700?  I work in a semi closed cube and I was wondering if HTF600 is a definitive no-no for work environment?  I’m currently using falling apart el chepos Panasonic RP-HT455 (I believe semi-open) cans.  They do leak a little bit of sound, however are more than acceptable. So maybe there is a tiny chance HT600 would work at work environment. From the attached below limited info/pictures on HT455 please let me know if there is a chance HT600 would be “good” choice for work environment.

 

The second pair is to upgrade my AD700s for gaming/music (mostly dance/techno).  I really like comfort, sound stage on AD700 (except bass presence).  I'm using asus xonar dg sound card with a bult-in headamp and with some EQ I can feel bass presence but it still I find it a little bit lucking.  Would the HTF600 make good gaming cans and would they be as comfy as AD700?   If I can find vendor shipping to Canada I might order pads too…   

 

 

TIA wink_face.gif

 

HT455 pic 1

HT455 pic 2

post #697 of 2812
Thread Starter 

Just for you my friend I just did a test of some cans I have at my shop.. You know what. .If you keep volumes at medium level. These are very acceptable..Both my Samson SR850 and HT770 leak like open speakers. These leak less. I noticed when the HTF600 is on the head the arms cover the air vents. Therefore less leakage..I am certain at medium volume levels these will be just fine..

 

So maybe at the end of the day ..Much like Gelocks.. You can blast them tunes to celebrate the end of the day but at normal volumes I think you are safe. I even have the velours on so they leak even more.. I think with the original pads on they should be a tad bit more isolated..

 

KEEP your HTF600s. I think you will be fine. I am guessing these will leak just a tad more than your HT455 if not very similar to them..


Edited by Dsnuts - 10/19/11 at 10:05am
post #698 of 2812
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelocks View Post

 

To tell you the truth, I LOVE the Pannies compared to the M50s.

 

Background.

A couple of years ago a friend of mine and I bought our first "more-than-a-hundred-dollar" cans

and I got the Shure 440s while he got the M50s.

 

I have to say, I didn't like the M50s that much due to the slightly veiled mids.

Bass had definitely more presence but other than that I prefered the Shure sound signature.

We both tried them after hundreds of hours of "burn" (just in case you ask...) we reached the same conclusion.

 

I recently tried them again (M50s) to test/compare to the Monoprice cheapo phones.

I definitely prefered the M50s a bit over the Monoprice DJ phones but not by a lot.

I thought the Monoprice/Kickers performed admirably for just being $22 but it wasn't as

detailed.

 

These Pannies I believe are better (to my ears at least) than both the M50s and Monoprice but

what surprised me is the value.! Note that I also prefer the pannies to my Shure 440s which I love

to death! ;-)

 

Anyway, point is, I agree with you Dsnuts, EVERYONE that loves bass but wants to

be able to listen to every genre (even if they DONT excel on every one) SHOULD try these!

;-)

 

 

P.S. My third set is on its way...

 



Lol. You bought a 3rd? 8066a319-a201-4a8a-95a4-cd67f31ad11f.jpg  Ya you do realize you have to buy 2 more just to equal the cost of one AT M50? .Oh the shame of it. hahaha!!


Edited by Dsnuts - 10/19/11 at 10:06am
post #699 of 2812

Instead of removing the cloth over the vents, has anyone thought of just using an xacto knife or something to cut the cloth that covers the bottom vent? Maybe even from the outside?

I don't have mine yet, so I"m not sure if that would work. I can see a couple possible pros and cons though.

 

Pros:

Thirty second mod. No opening of cans. No chance of damage to housing or wiring.

No need for bluetack (which I don't have anyway)

Keeps the cans closer to stock.

If the existing cloth lets some air through, it could be like partially covering some vents. Could have interesting results.  Or not.

 

Cons:?

If the existing cloth is not opaque enough, and the other 3 vents need to be blocked off completely, it wouldn't work as well.

Not as easily reversible. Would require re-sealing the slit with fabric glue or some tape that stuck unusually well to cloth.

If done from the outside and the cloth strip is not glued strongly enough and/or the xacto knife is not sharp enough, you may detach the cloth from the housing, in which case you'd have to open it up anyway.

If you're klutzy, you could scratch the outside of the housing. (Although, if you're that klutzy, you'd be just as likely to break the cans by trying to open them)

 


Edited by sailorman - 10/19/11 at 10:07am
post #700 of 2812


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsnuts View Post

Lol. You bought a 3rd? 8066a319-a201-4a8a-95a4-cd67f31ad11f.jpg  Ya you do realize you have to buy 2 more just to equal the cost of one AT M50? .Oh the same of it. hahaha!!



OTOH, he's have to buy 10 more just to equal the cost of one Beats Pro.

post #701 of 2812

As usual thank you very much...  wink_face.gif Too be honest this just makes my decision even harder, because I am flip-flopping again… eek.gifblink.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsnuts View Post

Just for you my friend I just did a test of some cans I have at my shop.. You know what. .If you keep volumes at medium level. These are very acceptable..Both my Samson SR850 and HT770 leak like open speakers. These leak less. I noticed when the HTF600 is on the head the arms cover the air vents. Therefore less leakage..I am certain at medium volume levels these will be just fine..

 

So maybe at the end of the day ..Much like Gelocks.. You can blast them tunes the celebrate the end of the day but at normal volumes I think you are safe. I even have the velours on so they leak even more.. I think with the original pads on they should be a tad bit more isolated..

 

KEEP your HTF600s. I think you will be fine. I am guessing these will leak just a tad more than your HT455 if not very similar to them..



 

post #702 of 2812

Thanks palmfish for your views on IEMs.

 

Maybe in the future I'll be more receptive but in the meantime, I'll stay with my 3.1 setup and my

cans ;-)

 

 

BTW, I have an Emotiva sub-woofer and just put up the same dubstep track I posted a few pages ago...

My living room windows wanted to explode!! w00t! (there's nothing like a "real" subwoofer for you bassheads

out there!)

post #703 of 2812



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsnuts View Post

Lol. You bought a 3rd? 8066a319-a201-4a8a-95a4-cd67f31ad11f.jpg  Ya you do realize you have to buy 2 more just to equal the cost of one AT M50? .Oh the shame of it. hahaha!!


LOL!

Yep. I sold my second set to a co-worker that liked them very much! ;-)

So this 3rd set is for home use. I will do a final comparison, after burn-in, to the Shure 440s and the AD700s

and then... I'll probably sell both (Shures and ADs... I still have the HD600s for "critical" music listening at home...) 
 

To amd7674, since you are still going to keep one pair for home use, just use that one a couple of days at work instead!!

(without opening the second pair). If no one at work throws papers and staplers at you, then you are home free and you can

stick with both of them! ;-)

post #704 of 2812
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gelocks View Post

 

LOL!

Yep. I sold my second set to a co-worker that liked them very much! ;-)

So this 3rd set is for home use. I will do a final comparison, after burn-in, to the Shure 440s and the AD700s

and then... I'll probably sell both (Shures and ADs... I still have the HD600s for "critical" music listening at home...)  

To amd7674, since you are still going to keep one pair for home use, just use that one a couple of days at work instead!!

(without opening the second pair). If no one at work throws papers and staplers at you, then you are home free and you can

stick with both of them! ;-)



People say I am a sales man. Who's the sales man now.? used-car-salesman.jpg Just for you my friend.. A very good deal!

 


Edited by Dsnuts - 10/19/11 at 11:26am
post #705 of 2812

Heya,
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by amd7674 View Post

@ MalVeauX

 

Is the HTF600’s sound leakage as bad as on my current AD700?  I work in a semi closed cube and I was wondering if HTF600 is a definitive no-no for work environment?  I’m currently using falling apart el chepos Panasonic RP-HT455 (I believe semi-open) cans.  They do leak a little bit of sound, however are more than acceptable. So maybe there is a tiny chance HT600 would work at work environment. From the attached below limited info/pictures on HT455 please let me know if there is a chance HT600 would be “good” choice for work environment.

 

The second pair is to upgrade my AD700s for gaming/music (mostly dance/techno).  I really like comfort, sound stage on AD700 (except bass presence).  I'm using asus xonar dg sound card with a bult-in headamp and with some EQ I can feel bass presence but it still I find it a little bit lucking.  Would the HTF600 make good gaming cans and would they be as comfy as AD700?   If I can find vendor shipping to Canada I might order pads too…   

 

 

TIA wink_face.gif


The HTF600 does not leak as much as the AD700. With velours, they're more comfortable to me. I never found the AD700 comfortable (it's too big, felt loose on my head, etc, I like a comfortable headphone but I also want a grip, I want it to feel solid, like I can move my head without it flopping off). The HTF600 leaks a little like a semi-open can does, so it's not silent, it does leak, but again, I don't find it leaking as much as my fully open headphones do. If leaking is an issue at all, I suggest you look at a fully isolated headphone like the Beyer DT770 PRO in a similar signature but with serious isolation (and velour pads), though significantly more expensive.

 

The HTF600 for gaming is an absolute upgrade over the AD700 in all ways in my book, but then again, I think it's well documented that I think the AD700 and M50 are not good headphones for their respective costs, so take my opinion with a grain of bias. If you want to upgrade from the AD700, the headphone I'd suggest is the Fischer Audio FA-011 or Beyer DT880 (neutral) PRO or DT990 (bassy) PRO.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post

I'd rather use electrical tape if doing it on the inside and leaving as that. Blutak might lose its grip/stickiness over time. Hmm... I never removed that plastic "ring" part on mine, don't even noticed any such part on mine. Remember the amount you cover will affect the sound quite a bit. When I compared covering it completely with my hand and removing back and forth it was such a huge change in sound between the two. Leaving the bottom opening is probably sufficient, I left a little bit more, also a small part one of the sideholes for possibly slightly better soundstage.

 

You don't think there's any decrease in bass reverb though?


I'll take the tac out soon, it's merely for testing. I'll try a few other things while in there. I took it apart fully just to see what all was what in the headphone. It's nice that it's essentially a toolless design. When the vents are fully covered, the bass and sound stage pretty much go south in a bad way. Definitely need to keep some venting on these things. I didn't feel like it lost reverb, but then again, maybe my coverage is simply different. I didn't find the bass to be all that different between my two pairs with the tac in place (and I don't find the bass to get very different with velours on either, it's amazing that it doesn't lose bass with velours). So far the only big acoustic change I've heard came from simply changing to velour pads which definitely alters the sound of the mids/highs, but it doesn't damage the bass (which is pretty awesome).

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by gelocks View Post

 

BTW, I have an Emotiva sub-woofer and just put up the same dubstep track I posted a few pages ago...

My living room windows wanted to explode!! w00t! (there's nothing like a "real" subwoofer for you bassheads

out there!)


I have dual 12" subs in my living room down stairs in my home theater. Double boom. I'll eventually up to four total for each corner of the room. For now, two will tear the house down when cranked up. I've had the cops called on me. Lol.

 

Very best,

 

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