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Tyll testing confirms: Burn-in is clearly audible - Page 4  

post #46 of 86

Hello burn-in, my old friend
I've come to argue you again
Here come the frequencies sweeping
Playing noise while I was sleeping
And the theories I've defended in my brain
Still remain
Within the Sound
Science

post #47 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorAnt View Post

This is how I know burn in is real.  I put the headphones on and I listen to them over time, then I trust  my ears. I've trusted my ears as an editor for 24 years. They've fed, clothed and sheltered myself and my family for 24 years.  I don't need no stinkin blind test to tell me what I hear and what I don't hear.  But hey if you're not confident in your own ability to hear and perceive then I guess you need blind test proof, double blind test proof.  Measurements from instruments as proof.  Anything other than your own ears because who can trust those things.


How can you prove that what you are hearing is what is actually occuring? How can you prove that you are not deluding yourself?
 

 

post #48 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurkumaural View Post

Hello burn-in, my old friend
I've come to argue you again
Here come the frequencies sweeping
Playing noise while I was sleeping
And the theories I've defended in my brain
Still remain
Within the Sound
Science


didn't realize paul simon was a head-fier.   tongue.gif

 

post #49 of 86

Quote:

Originally Posted by BournePerfect View Post

I know burn-in is real because I've owned a K702. wink_face.gif Is it true for every headphone? Of course not. Do I need an article to prove it one way or another? No. Why? For the same reason I know that my computer is right here beside me: because I can see it and (unfortunately) hear it. Prove me wrong, skeptics. I find it hilarious that so many Head-fiers are so flaky with their sense of hearing-it's truly mindblowing. I would ask: are you psyched out so easily by your other senses as well? Why is it that the sense of hearing is so wishy-washy, but the 4 other senses are generally so believable. Do you not trust your eyes when you see something? Do you not trust your hands when  when you feel something? Ever farted?? Ate pizza? Nah-it's probably all 'placebo' and 'brain burn in' lol. Maybe it's hard to hear something with your head buried in the sand. rolleyes.gif

 

I agree however, that not every headphone will audibly change over time from burn in, as I've owned dozens, and only a few changed. But for some it was very dramatic (K702), and others-not so much. But I sure as s*** don't need a skeptic to tell me what I did or did not experience-nor would I tell anyone else what their experiences were. That's just absolutely crazy. So, burn in is real, with certain equipment. I already know it, so why would I need to believe it?

 

 

Your comparison is flawed.  If you want to make a comparison using visuals, compare what's in your closet/dresser compared to what was in it 2 weeks ago.  Is everything in exactly the same place?  Hard to remember maybe?  I surely don't remember where everything was.  Aural memory is notoriously short-lived.

 

I'm not very flaky with my sense of hearing.  But I don't trust my memory well enough to compare sounds from now to sounds from months ago.  Or even hours ago frankly.  Just as a picture of my closet compared to how it is now would help make a comparison between them much easier would a FR graph between the headphones now and then make comparison possible.

post #50 of 86

I thought he was gonna prove it with facts with frequency graphics... one with a brand new headphone and other with the same headphone 100 or 1000 hours after.

post #51 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMcProgger View Post

I thought he was gonna prove it with facts with frequency graphics... one with a brand new headphone and other with the same headphone 100 or 1000 hours after.



Thats what I thought it was as well. It seem like a logical test, frequency response chart at hour 1, frequency response chart at hour 100, 1000, etc...

I think some guy had a pair of LCD-2s and he sent them in to Audeze for repairs and asked for another frequency response chart and they were different (not sure if I remember correctly...).

post #52 of 86

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylafari View Post


Thats what I thought it was as well. It seem like a logical test, frequency response chart at hour 1, frequency response chart at hour 100, 1000, etc...

I think some guy had a pair of LCD-2s and he sent them in to Audeze for repairs and asked for another frequency response chart and they were different (not sure if I remember correctly...).


For those asking about a FR graph over a burn-in period on one headphone Tyll has done that test though over a shorter period.

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/evidence-headphone-break

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/break-part-deux

 

post #53 of 86

People are clutching at straws to save face from years of comparing burning to dancing around the Monolith, I love all the squirming! very_evil_smiley.gif

post #54 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by jageur272 View Post

Quote:

 

Your comparison is flawed.  If you want to make a comparison using visuals, compare what's in your closet/dresser compared to what was in it 2 weeks ago.  Is everything in exactly the same place?  Hard to remember maybe?  I surely don't remember where everything was.  Aural memory is notoriously short-lived.

 

I'm not very flaky with my sense of hearing.  But I don't trust my memory well enough to compare sounds from now to sounds from months ago.  Or even hours ago frankly.  Just as a picture of my closet compared to how it is now would help make a comparison between them much easier would a FR graph between the headphones now and then make comparison possible.

Your analogy is terrible. And yeah, my stuff is NEVER in the same place-I'm a bachelor. ;)

 

-Daniel
 

 

post #55 of 86

Quote:

Originally Posted by BournePerfect View Post



Your analogy is terrible. And yeah, my stuff is NEVER in the same place-I'm a bachelor. ;)

 

-Daniel
 

 


How is my analogy terrible?  You say that there was an obvious difference with burn in, but you have no sort of comparison, nothing to judge it against other than what is in your memory.  Your analogy with the computer was simply "Hey, I see the computer, therefore it is there".  To apply this logic to the headphones would be: "Hey, I can hear stuff from them, therefore they produce sound".  What you want to compare is change over time.  And to do that accurately, I would trust a machine's memory much more than I would trust mine.

 

Come at me bro.

post #56 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post

People are clutching at straws to save face from years of comparing burning to dancing around the Monolith, I love all the squirming! very_evil_smiley.gif


Nope.

You have to demonstrate that both pairs were exactly the same before stating that one is different from the other.

Say you have a resistor that measures 102 Ohms and another that measures 100 Ohms. Then you "burn in" the 102 Ohm resistor for 1,000 hours and it still measures 102 Ohms. You cannot then ascribe the 102 Ohm measurement to "burn-in" that makes it measure differently from the 100 Ohm resistor.

They were different to begin with.

Enjoy your dance around the monolith. Why don't you light some incense to enhance the experience?
post #57 of 86

The title of this thread is incorrect.

post #58 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post

Nope.

You have to demonstrate that both pairs were exactly the same before stating that one is different from the other.
 


IF that is the case, and I don't believe it is. Every-single-review that is on this forum has no grounds for comparison and no coherence, because of the organic nature of the headphones you speak of.

 

That in and of itself would create much more contention than simply speakers aging.

post #59 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by jageur272 View Post

Quote:


How is my analogy terrible?  You say that there was an obvious difference with burn in, but you have no sort of comparison, nothing to judge it against other than what is in your memory.  Your analogy with the computer was simply "Hey, I see the computer, therefore it is there".  To apply this logic to the headphones would be: "Hey, I can hear stuff from them, therefore they produce sound".  What you want to compare is change over time.  And to do that accurately, I would trust a machine's memory much more than I would trust mine.

 

Come at me bro.

Here's an visual analogy for your Alzheimer's-riddled mind: A red apple sitting on my dresser. Yesterday it was a lighter shade of red. Today it's darker. Guess what? My memory can remember that because I'm not as easily as swayed as a child, or yourself perhaps.rolleyes.gif A K702, brittle and piercing in the treble just last night, has smoothed out considerably after a day of burn in. Don't tell me what I myself can see, or what I myself can hear-and I will do the same. Oh, and 'come at me'? You can sing me that lullaby all night lady because it's putting me to sleep. Get a clue.

 

-Daniel
 

 


Edited by BournePerfect - 9/10/11 at 1:11am
post #60 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylafari View Post





Thats what I thought it was as well. It seem like a logical test, frequency response chart at hour 1, frequency response chart at hour 100, 1000, etc...

I think some guy had a pair of LCD-2s and he sent them in to Audeze for repairs and asked for another frequency response chart and they were different (not sure if I remember correctly...).


that's not surprising, because there's going to be a difference in FR with even a small variation in headphone placement on the dummy head or wear on the ear pads.  which would make a "burn-in" FR test very difficult because any differences that may be attributed to burn-in are likely much less than the testing error you'd have.

 

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