The KRK KNS-8400: you can have it all. - Page 6

Interesting. So, would this be to say that seeking the flattest frequency response possible is somewhat mislead? I am open to any criticism of my philosophy! :P 

Would it be better for me to seek a headphone that has a (mostly) flat response but does not carry the oh-so-feared one-note-bass? Additionally, I would think it would be best to seek a natural and realistic sound stage. Would I not? How would the Shure 940 fit into this category???

No, it's most certainly a good start! Just not be all end all, flat FR that is. I don't seek the flattest possible performance, but do appreciate that everything is played somewhat accordingly and if there is some coloration it's at least within acceptable limits (no masking certain parts of the spectrum please!). Can't really comment on the soundstage... Haven't had problems with congestion or instrument separation with either of my two current and favorite closed cans, the 8400 and the K272. Natural and realistic, when concerning the soundstage from headphones, are not actual qualities  Speakers provide a more natural presentation... I've come to accept these terms, others seek the best of headphones for this issue..

I'm still thinking about pulling the trigger on these bad boys. Would my impression that the general consensus states these things are not just neutral but controlled (controlled in the bass region as well) too? I also read that they are very, very high detailed cans. 

I just hope the link I posted earlier in the thread isn't right. Otherwise I'd jump on these bad boys. I am itching for competent, mature and refined headphones. Neutral, not "flashy". It reminds me of that commericial; "it's my money and I need it now!". But instead I think "It's my fidelity and I need it now!"

Oh - and are the pads leather? I'm an animal rights activist and I don't use animal products. Any information on this would be appreciated (I can't find much as of right now). Thanks! :) :)

The pads are leatherette, or imitation leather.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonic Atrocity 

Oh - and are the pads leather? I'm an animal rights activist and I don't use animal products. Any information on this would be appreciated (I can't find much as of right now). Thanks! :) :)

Thank you! I really appreciate the information. :) 

Would you guys say the bass impact on these cans is realistic? I recognize that they may want to over-damp the bass for the sake of presenting a more controlled response (for the sake of referencing) but wouldn't reducing bass impact deviate from the fidelity of the bass impact that may very well exist in the recording? 

Bear with me. A producer may feel that hearing the controlled response is more important than feeling the controlled response (when using headphones). He could mix and master the bass region material on his headphones and then measure the bass impact when using monitors. Thus, he would not require realistic and high-fidelity bass impact in the headphones. I, on the other hand, want realistic bass impact as well as a controlled presentation of bass. I am not using these headphones as a reference tool but instead to bring my listening experience as close to fidelity as possible. 

Thoughts? 

I hope I'm not annoying. I know I am compulsive about these issues. But I really enjoy the discussions around here at head-fi. I get the impression that compulsive audio-related tendencies are accepted. :P

Realistic bass impact + control... The only headphone I've heard that comes close would be the LCD-2. 

You say 'fidelity', but it's highly subjective to us all. All headphones highlight different things. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonic Atrocity 

Thank you! I really appreciate the information. :) 

 

Would you guys say the bass impact on these cans is realistic? I recognize that they may want to over-damp the bass for the sake of presenting a more controlled response (for the sake of referencing) but wouldn't reducing bass impact deviate from the fidelity of the bass impact that may very well exist in the recording? 

 

Bear with me. A producer may feel that hearing the controlled response is more important than feeling the controlled response (when using headphones). He could mix and master the bass region material on his headphones and then measure the bass impact when using monitors. Thus, he would not require realistic and high-fidelity bass impact in the headphones. I, on the other hand, want realistic bass impact as well as a controlled presentation of bass. I am not using these headphones as a reference tool but instead to bring my listening experience as close to fidelity as possible. 

 

Thoughts? 

 

I hope I'm not annoying. I know I am compulsive about these issues. But I really enjoy the discussions around here at head-fi. I get the impression that compulsive audio-related tendencies are accepted. :P

The bass control, tone, and layering are exceptional... but honestly I'm sure your Pro900 will do a better job at reproducing "external driver" bass.

The KRK bass does not sound like subwoofer bass (GOOD subwoofer bass, not bloomy or blasting).  I'm extremely picky with my bass though.  I have yet to hear a headphone outperform a good external setup in this regard - maintaining tone, extension, and impact all at once.  From my experience, soundstaging/imaging and low frequency reproduction are just in a different league with external systems.

I've always felt like there is a pricepoint where lower prices give you more bang:buck in the headphone world but as prices increase you get more out of an external system.  The importance of headphones lies more in their niche with me, rather than raw fidelity production (uh oh, here come the head-fi extremists with pitchforks ready to butcher me).

My opinion may change as I learn more about headphones.  I've spent much longer in other categories of audio.

Regardless, I think the KRK sound balanced and realistic relative to many other headphones.  IF this is your fidelity, this is a good option at this pricepoint.

Hmm. Would you say that the impact is realistic enough? I know - I'm nit picky. I am just very, very serious about this. If the bass impact is not realistic enough (as well as if the impacts of the other areas of the frequency spectrum) then could it really be considered fidelity? 

This begs the question though: are headphones the key to fidelity? Well, from what I've read - no. But of course, my goal is to get as close to the "truth" (fidelity) as I possibly can.

I wonder, though, if headphones like the KRK KNS 8400 and other "reference" models exist merely as a tool to identify the music in a lifeless, non-intuitive way, where the music is represented without its "soul" (for lack of a better word). If I were to listen to a device that delivers a sonic reproduction to me without it's soul (whatever this may be) then perhaps my experience of music would actually be not of fidelity, but of an analytical tool that exists for the sake of mixing and mastering. This makes me wonder about the second school of thought referred to in the link I provided earlier in the thread, where the KRK KNS 8400 is not entirely flat, emphasizing frequency bands that are often discovered to be annoying after long-term exposure (at least this is my understanding of that second school of thought in referencing). 

I am still concerned about this lack of a flat response that is said to exist in the second school of thought in referencing. But I am not just concerned about this. I am concerned that there may be tweaks to the design that detract from fidelity but aid the producer in doing the mixing. These tweaks may be posited in accordance with a philosophy that it (the headphones) is strictly a reference tool - not a tool to truthfully deliver music. Hence, one generally makes their mixing decisions final with the use of reference monitors. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marximus 

I don't have the 8400s currently, but I had them, and I'm thinking about getting them again.  One of the things I remember most distinctly was how well they did at the reproduction of drums (which is part of what draws me to them again).  Very lifelike.  So in that sense, I'd say they've got good impact.

Just got mine a couple days ago and found the percussion instruments generally to be quite real sounding. I wonder if it was emphasized somewhat though since I didn't notice those sounds as much on my other 'phones.

Sounds like a crazy but sensible headphone that has got it right and does it's best while knowing the limitations of science and reasoning behind it.

Its a flavour of dt 48 mixed with something you enjoy.

Haha this headphone sounds like total chaos being good better good here nice here yea but this is chaos it's ment for studio applications flat and boring unless you change your mental perception as it grows on you.

This headphone can amaze though like when you seek with all your heart and you find the secret, it's like a release hopefully you won't get bored on them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holylucifer 

Sounds like a crazy but sensible headphone that has got it right and does it's best while knowing the limitations of science and reasoning behind it.

 

Its a flavour of dt 48 mixed with something you enjoy.

What'd be that thing I enjoy??? I don't quite understand.

How does the soundstage compare to the DT48? I've heard the DT48 has a very narrow sound stage that lacks realism.

i understand what you mean by realism, it is just a bland flat highly detailed headphone but it is true and it's true fun factor is the recording.

The dt 48 would have a smaller soundstage because it is a strict nagra rule.

The 8400 is the chaotic one.

22 KHZ is the normal and a very good reason to use it, these are 23khz which is why they are chaotic controlled and sensible at the same time energy is uttered should give you an idea what krk did to design these.

Chaotic means it solves issues like 6400 as op said like a eurofighter typhoon where it is unstable and fixed by computers, 23khz does not add up but whatever they did works.

23khz also means sound signature, as i believe in maths what they did outstrected so much that it would not work with conventional know how it had to be stabilized but with audio techniques energy is uttered and so is everything else.

Listen carefully to the kns 8400 and that is why it sounds great.