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The KRK KNS-8400: you can have it all. - Page 5

post #61 of 451

What about the 940? How pitch accurate (or in other words; flat) is the frequency response? I have read in some places it has more of a "fun" sound as opposed to a flat and neutral sound.

post #62 of 451

Actually a flat frequency response does not necessarily guarantee "pitch accurate" bass response. I haven't heard the SRH940, but from making an analysis of all the reviews, they'd probably suit my tastes well. "Fun" to me is subjective again. I don't think those qualities rule each other out. I can't have fun with serious coloration or lack of tunefulness, which many colored or bassy headphones seem to ruin...

post #63 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by electropop View Post

Actually a flat frequency response does not necessarily guarantee "pitch accurate" bass response. I haven't heard the SRH940, but from making an analysis of all the reviews, they'd probably suit my tastes well. "Fun" to me is subjective again. I don't think those qualities rule each other out. I can't have fun with serious coloration or lack of tunefulness, which many colored or bassy headphones seem to ruin...



Ohhh... am I to understand that "pitch accurate" means not just playing the pitches at the amplitude of a flat frequency response but playing the proper pitches? I am very confused hahahaha.

post #64 of 451

No you're right in a sense. People have tried to correct me before, and not without reason :)

 

Pitch is a musical term. I've heard headphones that measure quite flat down low in FR, but have the dreaded 'one note bass'. So another term that would work would be to say that a good headphone (for me) makes notes audible. But again, I've heard fast speakers that don't have any problems with musical transients, but just don't distinguish notes as well with a bit more melodically complex music. This is number one priority to me, but not for all of course. Sorry for misleading :)

Put a musician to tab notes with an Ultrasone and the results would not be as accurate. 

 

Anyway, that's what I think at which the 8400 excel. They're quite transparent in distinguishing differences in timbre as well. Very natural sounding cans also, which is a big bonus :)

 

If you play single tones at a single pitch/frequency, I don't think any headphone would have major difficulties producing it. This comes apparent, though I think, with more melodically complex music: Some forms of classical, most non-standard jazz stuff, Miles Davis and Frank Zappa... tongue_smile.gif


Edited by electropop - 12/9/11 at 3:25pm
post #65 of 451

Thanks everyone for the impressions and info!

 

I've been looking for a pair of closed headphones for a while now and these seem pretty close to what I've been searching for (especially the price). Any comments as to how well they isolate? I know the OP mentioned that they had very good isolation, but can anyone compare them to say the Sennheiser HD25 in regards to isolation?

 

post #66 of 451

Thanks, Electropop. I appreciate your responses :). You are a musician, aren't you? You certainly write like one. :) 

 

You have actually somewhat altered my prioritization of fidelity in a minor way. While a flat frequency response is important I also want to avoid this "one-note-bass" you speak of. I have heard of it before and, as someone who listens to a lot of lower register music (djent metal), I want to avoid this very much so. Can you think of cans that are mostly flat (flat enough to be called neutral) that avoid this "one-note-bass"? 

 

I am wondering if the Shure 940 avoids this. I have read it is bass light but I wonder if that is just because the laymen expects their ear drums to feel like earth quakes or something. :P

post #67 of 451

Hey guys, I was reading about the KRK KNS 8400 a little more last night and something caught my attention. Apparently there are roughly two schools of thought regarding recording monitors/headphones. One school of thought dictates that monitors must give a completely and totally neutral representation of the sonic material at hand. The other school of thought dictates that certain areas of the frequency spectrum should be elevated (not sure where though, perhaps this detail is beyond my understanding) so that sonic disturbances and annoyances that may only reveal themselves with familiarity will stand out almost immediately. 

 

Apparently the KRK KNS 8400 belongs more the the latter school of thought. If this is the case then the response is not quite as neutral as suggested and nor does it fit my listening needs. Any thoughts on this matter?

post #68 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Atrocity View Post

Hey guys, I was reading about the KRK KNS 8400 a little more last night and something caught my attention. Apparently there are roughly two schools of thought regarding recording monitors/headphones. One school of thought dictates that monitors must give a completely and totally neutral representation of the sonic material at hand. The other school of thought dictates that certain areas of the frequency spectrum should be elevated (not sure where though, perhaps this detail is beyond my understanding) so that sonic disturbances and annoyances that may only reveal themselves with familiarity will stand out almost immediately. 

 

Apparently the KRK KNS 8400 belongs more the the latter school of thought. If this is the case then the response is not quite as neutral as suggested and nor does it fit my listening needs. Any thoughts on this matter?


I think recording engineers/producers want a monitor that tells them what they want to know about their recordings. And different recording engineers/producers want to know different things.

 

post #69 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Atrocity View Post

Hey guys, I was reading about the KRK KNS 8400 a little more last night and something caught my attention. Apparently there are roughly two schools of thought regarding recording monitors/headphones. One school of thought dictates that monitors must give a completely and totally neutral representation of the sonic material at hand. The other school of thought dictates that certain areas of the frequency spectrum should be elevated (not sure where though, perhaps this detail is beyond my understanding) so that sonic disturbances and annoyances that may only reveal themselves with familiarity will stand out almost immediately. 

 

Apparently the KRK KNS 8400 belongs more the the latter school of thought. If this is the case then the response is not quite as neutral as suggested and nor does it fit my listening needs. Any thoughts on this matter?


I though the KNS-8400 was balanced (lacked emphasis).

 

I was also certain this was somewhat of a consensus among KRK owners here on head-fi.  Where did you find sources that suggested they had peaks?

 

post #70 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Atrocity View Post

Hey guys, I was reading about the KRK KNS 8400 a little more last night and something caught my attention. Apparently there are roughly two schools of thought regarding recording monitors/headphones. One school of thought dictates that monitors must give a completely and totally neutral representation of the sonic material at hand. The other school of thought dictates that certain areas of the frequency spectrum should be elevated (not sure where though, perhaps this detail is beyond my understanding) so that sonic disturbances and annoyances that may only reveal themselves with familiarity will stand out almost immediately. 

 

Apparently the KRK KNS 8400 belongs more the the latter school of thought. If this is the case then the response is not quite as neutral as suggested and nor does it fit my listening needs. Any thoughts on this matter?



I don't think it's that black and white. They do reveal lots of information of all kinds, but in a really non-disturbing manner. Still, haven't tried them (8400) with any metal or hard rock, so don't know how they would fare. Don't think too badly, since they do so well with very complex music in general. 

post #71 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by R-Audiohead View Post


I though the KNS-8400 was balanced (lacked emphasis).

 

I was also certain this was somewhat of a consensus among KRK owners here on head-fi.  Where did you find sources that suggested they had peaks?

 



Ahh, of course. Sorry! I should have posted the link in the first place. Here it is :)

 

http://www.avguide.com/review/krk-kns-8400-professional-monitoring-headphone-playback-47

 

Another thing I'm interested in is the concept of one note bass. I want to avoid this sonic issue very much so. How do you guys think the KRK's would add up here?

post #72 of 451

This lack of bass is less due to a frequency response issue and more due to the sound of overdamped bass. It's overdamped like a DT1350's bass would be -- powerful and well-extended when it needs to be, but it lacks the impact due to the slower start in the sine wave. The actual frequency response curve shows that it is rather balanced, however. It depends on if you would a slightly overdamped bass a colored response. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Atrocity View Post



Ahh, of course. Sorry! I should have posted the link in the first place. Here it is :)

 

http://www.avguide.com/review/krk-kns-8400-professional-monitoring-headphone-playback-47

 

Another thing I'm interested in is the concept of one note bass. I want to avoid this sonic issue very much so. How do you guys think the KRK's would add up here?



 

post #73 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanjiWatsuki View Post

This lack of bass is less due to a frequency response issue and more due to the sound of overdamped bass. It's overdamped like a DT1350's bass would be -- powerful and well-extended when it needs to be, but it lacks the impact due to the slower start in the sine wave. The actual frequency response curve shows that it is rather balanced, however. It depends on if you would a slightly overdamped bass a colored response. 
 



 

 

Correct me if I lack understanding here; I was of the understanding that "one-note-bass" is not a quantitative issue as much it is a qualitative issue. I thought that "one-note-bass" was a matter of the bass being represented by the means of a single note (or select few notes) - as opposed to the many notes the bass region consists of. 
 

 

post #74 of 451

Oh, I wasn't talking about "one-note-bass" in that case. I was talking about the bass of the KRK being colored.

 

One note bass is where a headphone poorly articulates the bass frequencies or super overemphasizes at 100hz and they all mush together into a thump sound. Thus, all the bass sounds like that thump. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Atrocity View Post

 

Correct me if I lack understanding here; I was of the understanding that "one-note-bass" is not a quantitative issue as much it is a qualitative issue. I thought that "one-note-bass" was a matter of the bass being represented by the means of a single note (or select few notes) - as opposed to the many notes the bass region consists of. 
 

 


 

 

post #75 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanjiWatsuki View Post

Oh, I wasn't talking about "one-note-bass" in that case. I was talking about the bass of the KRK being colored.

 

One note bass is where a headphone poorly articulates the bass frequencies or super overemphasizes at 100hz and they all mush together into a thump sound. Thus, all the bass sounds like that thump. 
 


 

 


Basically, yes. But headphones that do lack this, in other words are quite linear down low, like the HD25-1, have trouble portraying the musical mind of a fantastic bass-player in a jazz group, for instance.

 

I used to listen to Mahavishnu Orchestra quite much at some point and that was done mainly with the HD25-1's. I never thought highly of Rick Laird. He was a standard background bass-tone kinda guy... Got my K272's at some point and went back to listening to the same records (early 70s) and learned that the guy has actually something to bring to the table! Can't remember which now, but on some songs I started comparing them to the HD25's and noticed the Senns simply lacked the ability to distinguish small (and some not so small) musical cues on the recordings. Overall, what was really hardcore fusion rock which some say is utterly unmusical garbage, turned into controlled chaos. I learned especially what a musical mind mr. Laird had how he could so brilliantly accompany the rest of the band. Groovy! tongue_smile.gif

 

Well, anyway that was one of the concrete issues that at some point in my hobby led me to prioritize music and its integrity over small FR-differences and feelings I got from certain headphones. But as SanjiWatsuki said, this quality often goes hand in hand with sacrificing a bit of impact. If one enjoys the modern dance music or pop in general, I don't think he/she would gain much from the aforementioned quality, since it really lacks melodic content to tell a difference...

 

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