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The KRK KNS-8400: you can have it all. - Page 3

post #31 of 451

Close to a month since my last impressions & my affection for the 8400  has done nothing but grow.

 

With over 100 hours on them, they've significantly mellowed out when compared to their initial, "out of the box" bright/shrillness.  I'd confidently venture to say the articulate touches of warmth and smoothness (akin to the GR07) they now possess are notable characteristics.  They remain highly detailed, crisp, and balanced.  Bass has excellent presence and good impact.. all bass frequencies have excellent weight and detail.  Mids are clear, uncolored, slightly forward, and smooth.  Treble is crisp & airy.. but maintains smoothness at the very upper registers to keep fatigue at a minimum.

 

With how much they've smoothed out.. they sound very natural to my ears now.. fatigue is not an issue.  A member PM'ed me asking which has the more natural, "long term listening" friendly sound the 8400 & the 003.. I responded with the 003.. but doing more A/B'ing, I'd say it's a toss up at this point.  Both phones have a lot of similarities, the 003 has a more robust bass response but the 8400 has a more controlled, articulate midrange.. treble is dead even between the two.  The 003 sounds a little more spacious and immersive.. the 8400 has more air and reveals slightly more microdetails.

 

Fortunately, I don't have to choose between the 003 & 8400 cause that would be one agonizing decision.

 

Here's hoping more people try these and give us their impressions.  They're really one of the more under-appreciated & under-recognized phones.  For how heavily them seem marketed to the studio professional market, I think they're more than worthy for casual & critical audiophile-level listening.

post #32 of 451

Have found a somewhat irritating quality to these: treble. Hi-hat and other cymbals are too hot compared to the rest... While I initially had no problem with this and listened to the wonderful mid-range and treble detail with ease, it is a bit fatiguing! I don't mind listening, but it starts to hurt a bit. I have to turn down the volume and can't hear the rest so well when commuting, for instance. The K272 never had this problem, even when listening loud. 

 

Though the mid-range of these is quite phenomenal. Pitch articulation is top notch, and I'm not saying that just because they say so at KRK's site under the overview of this product. Much better than the K272 even...

 

Was listening to Frank Zappa's Waka/Jawaka, and at the end of this song, Aynsley Dunbar's (the drummer) bass drumming was not distinct! Tried again, and no. Some funny stuff happening at those frequencies. Kind of a turn-off... Still, following George Duke's synth improvising and Zappa's guitar action was relaxingly easy. Ah, If these only had the linearity of a K272 :(

 

It's now apparent though, how someone said these have "sucked out mids". They are. Can't listen to them at normal volumes anymore due to the treble... Hmm, might try some equalizing. Bah.

post #33 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by electropop View Post

Have found a somewhat irritating quality to these: treble. Hi-hat and other cymbals are too hot compared to the rest... While I initially had no problem with this and listened to the wonderful mid-range and treble detail with ease, it is a bit fatiguing! I don't mind listening, but it starts to hurt a bit. I have to turn down the volume and can't hear the rest so well when commuting, for instance. The K272 never had this problem, even when listening loud. 

 

Though the mid-range of these is quite phenomenal. Pitch articulation is top notch, and I'm not saying that just because they say so at KRK's site under the overview of this product. Much better than the K272 even...

 

Was listening to Frank Zappa's Waka/Jawaka, and at the end of this song, Aynsley Dunbar's (the drummer) bass drumming was not distinct! Tried again, and no. Some funny stuff happening at those frequencies. Kind of a turn-off... Still, following George Duke's synth improvising and Zappa's guitar action was relaxingly easy. Ah, If these only had the linearity of a K272 :(

 

It's now apparent though, how someone said these have "sucked out mids". They are. Can't listen to them at normal volumes anymore due to the treble... Hmm, might try some equalizing. Bah.


Have you tried swapping DACs, amps or sources to see if there's any changes in the treble? I won't suggest cable swaps since most people find that suggestion annoying! It worked for me when I had the SRH-940. My Belden 1192A interconnect made the SRH-940 unbearably bright and fatiguing. I switched to a Monoprice ($2) cable and problem solved!

 

I used the KRKs quite often on my 2G Ipod Touch and the treble is a tiny bit more bothersome (on any headphone). They say the Ipod Touch is pretty neutral, but mine definitely isn't, unless it's broken! I don't know if I myself would say the 8400 has "sucked out" mids and I think that's a bit overkill. I think perhaps they're a bit laid back/relaxed a tad to be less fatiguing for long periods of time maybe. To my ears, comparing the mids of the 6400 to the 8400, the 6400 had much more forward mids (which some don't like). The reason I kept the 6400 is because of the mids. It was just a better match for my music. For most it seems the 8400 is best overall. I don't know why, but the 8400 reminds me of the K702 in some ways, but even better. Yes, I said it! I always found the K702 to have fairly laid back mids (except upper mids).

 

You could also try an amp with forward mids normal_smile%20.gif I use the Nuforce Icon Mobile with the M50 and D2000. It's a very nice match for those. People who dislike those headphones due to the mids should try that amp/dac. The Nuforce Icon Mobile is also said to roll off the highs a bit. So..another good match for the D2000/M50 for those that find the treble a problem.

 

I used to hate the Icon until I bought the M50/D2000!

 

BTW Flysweep, you're making me want to try out the FA-003! Anything similar to the KRKs, but with perhaps a little more bass I'd like to try. I love clear sounding headphones with tons of detail.

 

My main negative for the KRKs is that they're a bit awkward on my head and not very, very secure. They'll probably be best for those with a medium or large head. They're fairly secure, but laying in bed listening to them would be tricky. Or doing any sort of exercise. I made that mistake once.

 

 


Edited by tdockweiler - 10/7/11 at 1:57pm
post #34 of 451
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

BTW Flysweep, you're making me want to try out the FA-003! Anything similar to the KRKs, but with perhaps a little more bass I'd like to try. I love clear sounding headphones with tons of detail.

 

I've got a good feeling you'd like the 003 a lot.. especially if you want a balanced, but more robust bass response w/ more impact.  Marximus, who has the 8400, recently got his hands on the 003 and is enjoying them very much (check LFF's 003 thread).  There are similarities between the two phones, but there's just enough different (bass quantity & texturing, midrange presentation, treble presentation) to be able to enjoy & own both.  It has top notch detail, an impressive soundstage (despite being a closed can), and a smooth, natural sound signature.  The 003 gets a lot of comparisons to the HD600 (but I found the 003 more enjoyable) so that should give you an idea of what to expect.


Edited by FlySweep - 10/7/11 at 8:46pm
post #35 of 451
Thread Starter 

I'll attest to this here, as well.  I'm definitely using my 003s more than the 8400s now.  The Fischers do seem to be clearer than the 8400s.  Just a great, fun, very well balanced pair of headphones.  Great impact and instrument separation.  I can't really think of any drawbacks to the 003s.  Good luck getting your hands on a pair, tdockweiler.

post #36 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

Have you tried swapping DACs, amps or sources to see if there's any changes in the treble? I won't suggest cable swaps since most people find that suggestion annoying! It worked for me when I had the SRH-940. My Belden 1192A interconnect made the SRH-940 unbearably bright and fatiguing. I switched to a Monoprice ($2) cable and problem solved!

 

I used the KRKs quite often on my 2G Ipod Touch and the treble is a tiny bit more bothersome (on any headphone). They say the Ipod Touch is pretty neutral, but mine definitely isn't, unless it's broken! I don't know if I myself would say the 8400 has "sucked out" mids and I think that's a bit overkill. I think perhaps they're a bit laid back/relaxed a tad to be less fatiguing for long periods of time maybe. To my ears, comparing the mids of the 6400 to the 8400, the 6400 had much more forward mids (which some don't like). The reason I kept the 6400 is because of the mids. It was just a better match for my music. For most it seems the 8400 is best overall. I don't know why, but the 8400 reminds me of the K702 in some ways, but even better. Yes, I said it! I always found the K702 to have fairly laid back mids (except upper mids).

 

You could also try an amp with forward mids normal_smile%20.gif I use the Nuforce Icon Mobile with the M50 and D2000. It's a very nice match for those. People who dislike those headphones due to the mids should try that amp/dac. The Nuforce Icon Mobile is also said to roll off the highs a bit. So..another good match for the D2000/M50 for those that find the treble a problem.

 

I used to hate the Icon until I bought the M50/D2000!

 

BTW Flysweep, you're making me want to try out the FA-003! Anything similar to the KRKs, but with perhaps a little more bass I'd like to try. I love clear sounding headphones with tons of detail.

 

My main negative for the KRKs is that they're a bit awkward on my head and not very, very secure. They'll probably be best for those with a medium or large head. They're fairly secure, but laying in bed listening to them would be tricky. Or doing any sort of exercise. I made that mistake once.

 

 


Don't get me wrong, the mid-range quality of the 8400 is almost second to none. It's just in relation to treble that they are "sucked out", if that's the correct way to say it. In other words, I need to boost the volume a bit to be able discern everything, but the drawback of this is that the treble gets too loud which becomes fatiguing even though I could listen to it otherwise. The K272 were much more linear in this way and wouldn't cause fatigue on even louder volumes. Much better for mid to low level listening. 

This is a shame, since the detail and pitch articulation of vocals, guitars, brass, percussion etc. is better than anything else I've had the opportunity to listen to as long a period of time as these. 

 

Regarding cables: No I'm not interested in swapping. I'm not against to one cable having a different impact on sound-presentation than another, but that's just it: hearing a difference does not make it better. Also I don't think any cable would be able to tame the hi-hat 2-3db tongue.gif

I'm running these off my iPod classic feeding a Graham Slee Voyager, which is claimed to be a "warm" amp, whatever that means... Sounded pretty similar straight out of my Linn DS player and iPod, balance wise, so I'm not willing to go down that road. 

 

I agree with the fit: they are not really secure. Also, I've been spoiled with the K272 headband. I didn't think I would ever complain about the comfort of a headphone, but damn I miss my AKG...


Edited by electropop - 10/8/11 at 5:26am
post #37 of 451

I received mine yesterday and after a few hours of pink noise I am very impressed with these headphones.  The detail is amazing for a $130 can.  I am not experiencing much fatigue at all with the treble.  I think the treble is very nicely detailed without being sibilant at all.  The mids are right where I like them.  Vocals are very clear, I actually haven't heard this kind of clarity since I listened to some Beyer T1s.  Now, the bass is a bit on the light side but it's very detailed.  It reminds me of my old K702s in that area actually.

 

All in all, I am very impressed with these.  The comfort is very nice and while I don't usually like leather/pleather pads the 8400 pads are very comfortable.  This provides excellent isolation as well. 

 

I am planning on comparing 4 lower-priced cans (DJ100, HTF600, KRK 8400, Fostex T50RP - unmodded right now) to see how they compare to each other.  As of now, I would put the 8400 at the top of that list.  Although, I have yet to mod the T50RP, so we'll see.  ;)

post #38 of 451

not to threadjack but, how do you guys think the 8400 fares against the at m50? im torn between these two since they seem kinda similar.

 

post #39 of 451
Thread Starter 

I've owned the M50s twice, and listened to them once more in a store.  They struck me as kind of boring, nothing about which to be too terribly excited.  Which is why I had them twice; I was trying to figure out what I didn't like about them.  But for whatever reason, the 8400s have really impressed me.  IIRC, the M50s are more U-shaped in frequency response, whereas the 8400s are closer to being flat.  YMMV.  I think they are pretty similar and I don't think you could really go wrong with either; the 8400s are 50 grams lighter (and therefore possibly more comfortable) and $30 cheaper.

post #40 of 451

^ah, thats good to know. i have read additional reviews about the 8400 and its younger bro the 6400, and they seem to be pretty similar.

one review on this site mentioned how the 6400 had a bit more bass than the 8400. seems that the 8400's direct competitor at its 

price range would be the SRH840.

post #41 of 451
Thread Starter 

That was not my impression.  I owned the 6400s for about a day and exchanged them for the 8400s.  The 8400s IMO definitely have more bass and are far less fatiguing, as well.

post #42 of 451
Originally Posted by electropop View Post

 

It's now apparent though, how someone said these have "sucked out mids". They are. Can't listen to them at normal volumes anymore due to the treble... Hmm, might try some equalizing. Bah.


Interesting comments about the treble.  I absolutely love how it's presented: crisp, richly detailed, but possessing just the right touch of smoothness and airiness so as to not fatigue.  It reminds me of the RE0's treble presentation in many ways.  Out of the box (and for the first twenty hours or so), I found the 8400 impossibly bright and fatiguing.  After that the edge wore off dramatically.

 

Even the mids, I don't find sucked out.. actually quite natural and balanced.  They're not as robust as the 003's mids.. while both the 003 & 8400 are deemed studio monitors.. the (comparatively thinner) midrange presentation from the 8400 falls more in line with what one would expect from a stereotypical professional monitor.. it possesses more air & separation between instruments as a result of this while the 003 opts for a more spatially compact presentation when it comes to instruments.

 

Listening to Ottmar Liebert & Luna Negra's "Scent of Light" LP, Liebert's masterful guitar playing sounds so lively & detailed.. I can hear every nuance, bent string, and intricate strum with astonishing ease.


Edited by FlySweep - 10/14/11 at 1:08am
post #43 of 451

A couple of weeks ago I brought home a pair of 8400's.

 

Listened to them for days.

 

 

Did not like them.

 

I think what best describes my impressions was when I dozed off while listening -

and upon waking; momentarily confused, I said to myself

 

"What headphones are these?  They don't sound very good at all."

 

Yes, they're very comfortable to wear and so is the price point.

But the bass lacks, and thus the midrange and treble are overly present.

 

They're not sonically balanced consistently within themselves,and

thus it becomes disappointing and even irritating to listen to them after a while.

 

At the same price, more or less, I much prefer the Sony MDR 7510

(the "pro" version of the ZX700).  For maybe $40.00 more, you can have

the ATH-M50 which IMO are far, far better phones than the 8400's.

Shure 840's sound better as well.  And if you include open phones

into the mix, there's even a wider variety of better sounding phones.

 

 

post #44 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlySweep View Post

Interesting comments about the treble.  I absolutely love how it's presented: crisp, richly detailed, but possessing just the right touch of smoothness and airiness so as to not fatigue.  It reminds me of the RE0's treble presentation in many ways.  Out of the box (and for the first twenty hours or so), I found the 8400 impossibly bright and fatiguing.  After that the edge wore off dramatically.

 

Even the mids, I don't find sucked out.. actually quite natural and balanced.  They're not as robust as the 003's mids.. while both the 003 & 8400 are deemed studio monitors.. the (comparatively thinner) midrange presentation from the 8400 falls more in line with what one would expect from a stereotypical professional monitor.. it possesses more air & separation between instruments as a result of this while the 003 opts for a more spatially compact presentation when it comes to instruments.

 

Listening to Ottmar Liebert & Luna Negra's "Scent of Light" LP, Liebert's masterful guitar playing sounds so lively & detailed.. I can hear every nuance, bent string, and intricate strum with astonishing ease.


 

I said nothing more about the treble other than it was louder in relation to everything else. Well articulated, fast, but louder. 

 

Sucked out would clearly be the wrong term, since I already misguided you :)


Edited by electropop - 10/14/11 at 7:50am
post #45 of 451
Quote:
Originally Posted by zazex View Post

A couple of weeks ago I brought home a pair of 8400's.

 

Listened to them for days.

 

 

Did not like them.

 

I think what best describes my impressions was when I dozed off while listening -

and upon waking; momentarily confused, I said to myself

 

"What headphones are these?  They don't sound very good at all."

 

Yes, they're very comfortable to wear and so is the price point.

But the bass lacks, and thus the midrange and treble are overly present.

 

They're not sonically balanced consistently within themselves,and

thus it becomes disappointing and even irritating to listen to them after a while.

 

At the same price, more or less, I much prefer the Sony MDR 7510

(the "pro" version of the ZX700).  For maybe $40.00 more, you can have

the ATH-M50 which IMO are far, far better phones than the 8400's.

Shure 840's sound better as well.  And if you include open phones

into the mix, there's even a wider variety of better sounding phones.

 

 


Ewww, I don't like your tastes at all, good sir. 

 

I've heard the ZX700 and M50, owned the srh840 and don't think any of them fair against these. That is, if you count music being reproduced accurately to the note, on top of your sound preferences. All the rest are awfully monotonic vs. the 8400...

 

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