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Dsavitsk/Beezar Torpedo Build Thread - Page 26

post #376 of 638
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimLaroux View Post

 

I've never said it's a lie, so no I can't tell you why it would be one. In fact, in my last post, I agreed with you about heat improving the efficiency of the getter. And I still agree with what you're saying here. I have nothing to say against it. It makes perfect sense. 

 

This web page is amazing, thanks for the link.

I misinterpreted.  Sorry. frown.gif

 

Yeah, there's been a lot of science on getters, apparently.

post #377 of 638

Are there any specs available on this amp? Like how much power/current does the amp output into low impedance and high impedance, at least?

 

I should also tell more about the hum - my friend did the zener mode, a choke, grounding heatsinks and followed heku (images on page 24). The result is zero hum... I realised that what I am hearing on 75 - 100% on high Z with HD800 is not a hum but simple low-level hiss.

 

The only case when I can actually hear hum is when I output digital signal from my desktop computer using coaxial (to my DAC) as there seems to be a VERY noisy environment inside the PC...


Edited by RustA - 3/28/13 at 4:05pm
post #378 of 638
Somewhere between 125mW and 250mW -- depending on how hard you push it, and what sort of distortion you are willing to live with. So that means ~ between 6 and 9Vrms into 300 Ohms, and between 2 and 3Vrms into 32 Ohms
post #379 of 638

Maybe a stupid question from a person that never used tubes and output transformers before: Would the torpedo be able to function as a preamplifier with the right adapter? So, could it drive 20k impedance? 

 

Of course, preamp function would not be necessary, but this way, I could try a "genuine" tube pre with my speakers, to see how that sounds.

post #380 of 638
The very short answer is that the inductance of the transformers determines whether a load is too high. If there is not enough inductance, you will lose bass. These transformers may drive a 20K load, but it would probably be prudent to put a dummy load (a resistor) across the secondaries.
post #381 of 638

Little bit more about my impressions on the Torpedo (EDITED!):

 

 

I tried all the tube sets once again and what surprised me was that the variation in FR is not as significant as I expected before getting the amp. TomB sent me 3 different matched 6J6 sets (with different subnames on it), one pair of 6J6W, 5964 and 5844 = 6 matched pairs in total. I am not able to precisely speak about each subtle difference but in general, this is my personal opinion so far with HD800 and StageDAC:

 

1) 6J6 (Top UFO) - cannot say how it is possible but this set has significantly better soundstage width... I mean SIGNIFICANTLY. The rest of tubes are rather similar in this regard but this set beats them all just because of this parameter. Strange, I didn't play them more than the rest... I thought it's a placebo but it's not, no problem to do a blind test here and recognize the difference o_O

 

2) 6J6W - looks beautiful when plugged because only those are completely transparent from the top and therefore you see that beautiful visual effect of tubes to the full extend. As for the sound, so far similar to the rest of 6J6 series.

 

3) 5964, 5844 - Not sounding completely the same but I prefer 6J6 tubes over them so far, not by much at all though... The differences are very small and it could happen that for some specific reason (sound-wise) one of them will become my favourite in future.

 

 

 

Now a little bit more on the sound, in comparison to O2 as a VERY GOOD solid state amplifier (using the same cable and 1/4 headphone out on both amps = no adapters). I still think those two are on par but provide a SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT experience (I mean SIGNIFICANTLY IN TERMS OF AMPLIFIERS...):

 

O2 is clear, airy, transparent, "monolithic" sound-wise, neutral... Just easy to assess, nothing to stay hidden (I mean in terms of its sonic characteristics), nothing complicated.

 

Torpedo is much more complicated... It's not as clear, airy or transparent (yes, it's not a completely transparent amp). However, there really is zero harshness, imaging is on par with O2 and with 6J6 tubes (see above), Torpedo beats my O2 in soundstage significantly (O2 still a bit wider but Torpedo much more natural and near-perfect, at least for music I like, IMHO). Frequency response leaning towards the warmer side (not dramatically though)... Highs are very nice (natural guitars and cymbals in comparison to rather lifeless and harsh interpretation given by O2, most probably due to impedance match issues), voices as well full and beautiful, bass is there but lacks tightness and ultimate impact so far, regardless the tubes I use. O2 bass is analytical but present, with relative ease...

 

Both are in the same league IMHO but I am surprised that O2 really suffers from impedance mismatch with HD800... The highs (including female vocals) lack smoothness and detail - yes, detail! It seems TomB was right here, it seems near-zero impedance really isn't ideal for all. Torpedo, on the other hand, lacks complete transparency O2 provides. The difference is not big but for those of us who consider transparency very important (hi, David!), this could be an issue (to solve with the rest of a chain). Especially with warmer headphones.

 

 

 

So far, I struggle to choose which of those two amps to prefer... They are both really good in what they provide. I guess it would be good to get some magical set of tubes which could tighten up the bass (lower subbass frequencies a little to clear up the sound) and maybe brighten the overall signature a bit ( = to increase a perception of transparency = less subbass could do the job as suggested previously). Maybe if I burn-in all the sets of tubes, one of those would do the job... We will see. smily_headphones1.gif

 

EDIT: After tweaking my StageDAC's setting, I found out that:

 

A) mid-position of Tonal balance switch gives the amp the bass impact it needed (it puts emphasis on frequencies up to 2khz to balance out the crossfeed effect), without loosing the separation completely (bass moves more up to the center where singer's position is which I find more natural than rather analytical approach with HD800 "stock" bass, positioned significantly below singer and guitars). Listening is now more near to the way how speakers do sound, significantly... And the bass is more on the scene, in terms of both position and impact/subjective feeling of tightness. Image-wise it's a bit worse but nothing I cannot live with.

 

B) Low-positions of Pulse response and Over sampling gives the sound the last touch of brightness it needed to feel reasonably transparent ( = low Pulse and Low Oversampling means classic DAC approach = completely flat line from bottom to the absolute top). Those few added db of high treble frequencies helped to complete the synergy. God bless the StageDAC!

 

I am now ready to spend few days with the setup to ensure that the synergy now really is satisfactory to near-full extent, at least. The amp still could be a touch more transparent in order to be "perfect" itself (bass is alright in the end for me, just not as punchy without my StageDAC), let's see what burning in the tubes brings!

 

 

 

Disclaimer: Please, take it rather as a temporary opinion :-) But it could help or at least interest someone enough to give an advise or another opinion. There aren't many posts about how Torpedo actually sound... Well, right now, one more added ,-)

 

Disclaimer 2: O2 haters, skip all my opinions and please do not underestimate this tube amplifier... It could very well outperform O2 for you in every aspect. I personally have high respect for O2 and now for the Torpedo as well.


Edited by RustA - 3/31/13 at 2:32am
post #382 of 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsavitsk View Post

The very short answer is that the inductance of the transformers determines whether a load is too high. If there is not enough inductance, you will lose bass. These transformers may drive a 20K load, but it would probably be prudent to put a dummy load (a resistor) across the secondaries.

ok, makes sense. 

 

Thank you. 

Florian

post #383 of 638
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

Little bit more about my impressions on the Torpedo (EDITED!):

 

 

I tried all the tube sets once again and what surprised me was that the variation in FR is not as significant as I expected before getting the amp. TomB sent me 3 different matched 6J6 sets (with different subnames on it), one pair of 6J6W, 5964 and 5844 = 6 matched pairs in total. I am not able to precisely speak about each subtle difference but in general, this is my personal opinion so far with HD800 and StageDAC:

 

1) 6J6 (Top UFO) - cannot say how it is possible but this set has significantly better soundstage width... I mean SIGNIFICANTLY. The rest of tubes are rather similar in this regard but this set beats them all just because of this parameter. Strange, I didn't play them more than the rest... I thought it's a placebo but it's not, no problem to do a blind test here and recognize the difference o_O

 

2) 6J6W - looks beautiful when plugged because only those are completely transparent from the top and therefore you see that beautiful visual effect of tubes to the full extend. As for the sound, so far similar to the rest of 6J6 series.

 

3) 5964, 5844 - Not sounding completely the same but I prefer 6J6 tubes over them so far, not by much at all though... The differences are very small and it could happen that for some specific reason (sound-wise) one of them will become my favourite in future.

</snip>

Just an FYI, but I used the descriptor "UFO" because the getters look to me like tiny flying saucers.   As best I can tell, they are 50's-vintage Japanese tubes.  Maybe they were left by the Mysterians? wink.gif

post #384 of 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post

Just an FYI, but I used the descriptor "UFO" because the getters look to me like tiny flying saucers.   As best I can tell, they are 50's-vintage Japanese tubes.  Maybe they were left by the Mysterians? wink.gif

 

Haha, that would be awesome... Hell, no! I need to get another pair somehow to be safe, these really sound great! tongue_smile.gif

 

=====================================

 

After spending another day with the amp, I must say that the tweaking really perfected my experience and therefore I definitely started to prefer the Torpedo over O2 for HD800.

 

There is singnificantly more detail and texture in higher mids and treble, most probably due to better impedance match (using high Z switch for 300 ohm all the time, of course!). With my favourite tubes, soundstage is very natural... I only hope the tubes won't change to worse early =/

 

In general, I would describe my whole chain as a hybrid of HD800 and LCD-2 type of sound - great impactful bass, liquidy mids, non-harsh highs, wide but not too wide soundstage and very good imaging (though not as brilliant and accurate as with HD800 stock since I have crossfeed on along with Tonal balance switch). Separation is also not as brilliant but still significantly better than with LCD-2. That said, if I want to get the HD800s sound back, I just turn off the Tonal balance switch => perfect imaging and separation is there :-)

 

Nothing is perfect but I am very happy with my audio chain right now, from the player to the headphones... As a student, I cannot afford anything better but I feel that my system is brilliant for the price.

 

=====================================

 

As for the sound of the Torpedo itself, my opinion remains unchanged - the amp is very good, has a lot of texture and no harshness. Its sound is very natural and the impedance switch makes it a very versatile device, along with tubes, of course! With the right pair, soundstage gets pretty good... I would like the amp to be a little bit more transparent and precise in rendering bass guitar but as I said - it's possible to mitigate with the rest of your chain, or maybe even with the right set of tubes. Will keep it definitely!


Edited by RustA - 3/31/13 at 7:21am
post #385 of 638
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

Haha, that would be awesome... Hell, no! I need to get another pair somehow to be safe, these really sound great! tongue_smile.gif

 

</snip>

Thanks for the awesome posts.  I have plenty of the "Mysterian" 6J6's - just specify that's what you want if you order more. wink.gif

post #386 of 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomb View Post

Thanks for the awesome posts.  I have plenty of the "Mysterian" 6J6's - just specify that's what you want if you order more. wink.gif

 

PMed you wink.gif

post #387 of 638

I noticed that power transformer was making more noise because metal box was touching it.

So I moved C1 further away from transformer and made little bit bigger box.

 

post #388 of 638

Update after one week of listening / tweaking (EDITED, again!):

 

I upgraded both my computers - exchanged my old laptop for brand new dedicated audio PC which is very silent and reasonably priced (my friends helped me to get the absolute best for my money). Then, I purchased a very good fan regulator in order to tune all my six fans in my control PC to be as silent as possible. I also estimated the final and best setting for me in Jplay and StageDAC and...

 

... I am amazed how brilliant my system sounds! I praise Torpedo's very natural approach which completely balance my whole chain and adds LIFE to it... The amp offers a very natural tone with slight fullness or heaviness that helps drums or piano to have a real impact. It slows music down a little bit, subjectively. I love how my HD800 have a bit dark-ish tone now, kind of LCD-2 like sound with much better soundstage, neutrality and technical brilliance. tongue_smile.gif Zero brightness or sibilance but still the detail and separation are there (no need for StageDAC's tonal balance correction anymore). Bass is very relaxed and smooth, I kind of love its less analytical and more butter-smooth and sugary feeling... It's creamy and relaxed but enough tight and precise, the best bass I have heard with headphones! Mids are very natural, very similar to LCD-2s (voices!) and treble more neutral in comparison but very very smooth (loving those guitars - both acoustic and electric)! My little complaints about bass tightness and transparency are finally gone!

 

Man, this is perfect... My endgame rig for sure! It can be quite a task to implement Torpedo correctly into your audio chain but once its done, it's a symphony! I think Torpedo is a BRILLIANT device especially if you are looking for natural sound and have a little bit patience to find the right synergy with the rest of your system! smily_headphones1.gif

 

EDIT: It's incredibly speaker-like! Huge impact, heavy guitars, bass, drumming... Yeah, hardware-based crossfeed + natural-sounding tube amplifier + HD800 = tongue_smile.gif tongue_smile.gif tongue_smile.gif L3000.gif

 

Thanks TomB!!!


Edited by RustA - 4/8/13 at 4:35pm
post #389 of 638
smily_headphones1.gif
post #390 of 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsavitsk View Post

smily_headphones1.gif

 

Thanks to you as well! One of the best nights in my life, it brought tears to my eyes several times, really... After all I did in previous five months (or nearly two years, to be precise), I have a feeling that I reached the milestone. This is what I wanted to achieve during my studying years - it took several high-end headphones, amps, DACs and players but it's here and it's real! Now, I am free to focus on music and be looking forward to future upgrades once anything interesting appears on the market - wish to get even closer to how speakers sound with headphones! smily_headphones1.gif


Edited by RustA - 4/9/13 at 3:25am
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