New Sound Card? Asus Xonar DG make audio better than onboard?

The Xonar DG does come with a decent headphone amplifier, your on-board does not.

The Xonar DG comes with Dolby Headphone 5.1 your on-board does not.

I recently tossed my Xonar DX (due to nonstop BSODing with WASAPI) and installed my Realtek mobo audio drivers for WASAPI on S/PDIF.

I hear absolutely no difference in quality and wish I never wasted $60 on that buggy paperweight.

If you're using DirectSound, then yes, even a budget Xonar is possibly better than onboard audio (despite possibly having even worse drivers than Creative), but if you're going for bit-perfect output, motherboard optical-out is fine.  In fact, it's superior due to better stability, if you get Realtek's drivers directly off of Realtek's website.

Straight from the man himself...

http://www.foobar2000.org/FAQ

I had trouble parsing your first post, so hopefully I'm summing up your situation correctly.  Basically, you're looking to get good sound out of your desktop PC.

Assuming you don't have a DAC, you'd plug your headphones straight into your motherboard audio speaker out (usually the green jack).  Last I checked, Shure usually makes headphones/IEMs that don't need a lot of power to drive them, so your onboard sound should be sufficient.  It's kind of odd that it's not.  I'm assuming you've already turned the volume up in your Windows Sound mixer.

If you plan on using optical, then you need some sort of DAC, where you'd go from: motherboard optical -> device with a DAC -> headphones.  Your headphones can't deal with a pure optical output, and you need an intermediary device to convert the digital into an analog stream.

I have no idea if plugging your headphones directly into your headphone port on your desktop speakers, but it doesn't sound like you have a high-end setup so it probably will make little/no noticeable difference for your listening.  I've done the same for previous PC desktop setups and it sounded fine to me.  Like you've guessed, though, it's better to go straight from your motherboard or PCI soundcard (as long as you don't hear any sort of hum due to all the unshielded components inside your computer case).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian 
I recently tossed my Xonar DX (due to nonstop BSODing with WASAPI) and installed my Realtek mobo audio drivers for WASAPI on S/PDIF.

I hear absolutely no difference in quality and wish I never wasted $60 on that buggy paperweight.

If you're using DirectSound, then yes, even a budget Xonar is possibly better than onboard audio (despite possibly having even worse drivers than Creative), but if you're going for bit-perfect output, motherboard optical-out is fine.  In fact, it's superior due to better stability, if you get Realtek's drivers directly off of Realtek's website.

Straight from the man himself...

http://www.foobar2000.org/FAQ

The Asus Xonar DX does not come with a dedicated headphone amplifier chip, the Xonar DG does.

I've used a Xonar DG, DS, DX and now an Essence STX, I have found the drivers very stable and problem free
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by PurpleAngel 

The Asus Xonar DX does not come with a dedicated headphone amplifier chip, the Xonar DG does.

I've used a Xonar DG, DS, DX and now an Essence STX, I have found the drivers very stable and problem free

Just because the ASUS drivers work well for you doesn't mean it works well for everyone.  The issues with ASUS cards are well documented on the forum that hosts FB2K and all 3rd party plugins.  In addition, there would be no need for the unified drivers project if ASUS did a proper job with drivers.  If the OP has any intention of using the sound card for bitperfect output, he'd be better off with a Auzentech, Creative, M-Audio, etc.

http://brainbit.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/asus-xonar-unified-drivers/

That said, it seems unusual that the VT1708S does a subpar job of driving the SRH440.

As I said, for normal DirectSound output, any ASUS Xonar card is fine.  I referenced the DX as I've probably put half a dozen headphones from all sorts of different manufacturers on the speaker out, and all of them were plenty loud.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowei006 

So yeah. I have been introduced into Audiophile ...well the whole range this year and have improved leaps and bounds over my knowledge and stuff thanks to you guys on head-fi. Now I have the ASUS M4A78T-E mobo which comes with the VIA® VT1708S 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/audio/codecs/vt1708s/

I have the SHURE SRH 440's which are entry level audiophile headphones that have been given really good reviews especially for it's price of $70 including shipping. And now i am wanting some good audio for my computer. i have heard that onboard has improved and know this but by how much? Will i hear an improvement if i get the $20 ASUS XONAR DG which also has gotten rave reviews for it's price and performance? Like what will i hear more really? Will it's features and what not really improve my sound? I' asking because I want more dedicated software that's better than what i currently have. I have a 2010 Macbook Pro and all and that sounds great. And then with my ipod that i ahve ALAC tracks on connected to an Fiio L9 LOD and then to the Fiio E5 amp also sounds good. So will this Xonar DG improve my sound on my main desktop rig that i want it for? Plus i heard that this will reduced CPU cycles while gaming and what not which is a small thing i should worry about (4GHz Quad Core AMD K10, 8MB L3 Cache)

Condensed version of the wall of text I tried to post earlier:

• Cirrus CS4206A HD audio chip (MBP), VIA® VT1708S (PC)  have similar audio performance, you just can't hear loudly enough from your PC compared to your MBP and your iPod + Fiio E5. Your ipod have a better dac and analog output stage than the onboard chips that you have, furthermore you amp the ipod using Fiio E5 so that obviously yields better SQ.
• Cheap and budget sound cards in general have equal or minimally better SQ compared to the latest onboard HD audio codecs. If you are used to onboard audio quality, chances are you will only perceive the Xonar DG as being LOUDER, not more musical, less noise, more detailed or etc. To know for sure, the only way is to purchase the DG, use it for 2 weeks for music listening, gaming, movies then go back to your VIA® VT1708S/MBP/iPod, and see if you can notice any difference.
• The Xonar DG's amp is more powerful than the ones in your onboards that you have where it can power headphones up to 150 ohm, it means you can get more volume and quality (If you can hear the difference).
• You need better headphones to really notice the difference between your VIA® VT1708S/MBP/iPod + E5 and a Xonar DG. On my SR60i I could hear subtle differences with Xonar DG vs. Realtek HD/SupremeFX X-Fi (Asus Rampage onboard audio)/Intel HD Audio codec. Using my MS2i, and K701, HD650 (I amp it with Maverick A1 and Schiit Asgard) all onboard audio sounds robotic, cold, sterile. The Xonar DG using MS2i, K701, HD650  sounds way better: warmer, better bass extension, better treble, improved clarity, more natural and fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowei006 

Thanks for stating the obvious. is there a comparable quality differnce though that i will hear?

With your headphones and what you have stated, probably not. You will probably hear it as louder when using the Exciter mode. If loud is quality for you, then you would hear it as 'sounding great'. 

So my question for you is, what is great sound to you like? Loud? Clear? No Hiss? No Hum? Airy Instruments? Liquid Mid range? Tight Bass? Sparkly Highs?

I think your new plan is much better.  I'd just skip the soundcard altogether and get a nice DAC that falls within your budget, and run your headphones directly out of your DAC.  Going from your motherboard S/PDIF optical out to a DAC will give you a much cleaner sound that you will never get from a speaker out on a headphone/mobo.

Re your question on receiver, it really depends on the receiver.  Some have good DAC chips while others are pretty bad.  You generally get what you pay for with the commercial brands.  If it's an entry-level receiver, chances are it'll have an entry-level DAC.

You could go straight for an amp like the FiiO E9, but if you want to buy new (given your budget), I'd probably check out the Musical Fidelty V-DAC, HeadAmp pico Upsampling USB DAC (or the HeadAmp pico USB DAC/Amp as an integrated DAC+amp unit, but the DAC there isn't as good as the pure upsampling USB DAC. if you don't mind getting an amp down the road, I'd choose separate DAC and amp units so you have more control over your system), and AMB gamma2.  Last but not least, there are many <$500 vintage DACs on the market which perform fantastic, which were all state of the art when released, if you don't mind being limited to 16-bit.

Something I don't know the answer to is whether the volume will be loud enough going from your PC -> DAC (which doesn't have a built-in preamp) -> Shure SRH440.  My gut instinct would be that it would, but someone with experience with the Shures would give a better response.

I think if you do something like get a V-DAC, HeadAmp pico USB, or gamma2, and then eventually pair it with a HeadAmp GS-1 or Schiit Asgard (great headphone amp which is only $249), you will be very happy for a long time, and will probably end up upgrading your headphones within 6-12mo :)  Any one of those DACs are $300 and the Asgard is only $249, and those devices can all compete against $500-750+ commercial brands.  Also, the Schiit Bifrost DAC is only $349, and should be another great performer.

Just noticed this bit:
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowei006 
Plus i heard that this will reduced CPU cycles while gaming and what not which is a small thing i should worry about

Nowadays, you wouldn't buy a sound card for the performance increase in games. You buy it for the quality increase. Generally better analog output over onboard, EAX 5 in older games (if it's a proper X-Fi), and binaural surround filters like CMSS-3D Headphone or Dolby Headphone.

If the latter two are of any importance to you, it might be worth getting a cheap sound card with those sort of features, then using its S/PDIF output to feed an audiophile DAC, so you get both gaming and music features. Just remember to turn any binaural surround features off if you're going to listen to music; you'll likely want that as uncolored and pure as possible.

I second Elysian's suggestions.

Looks like your receiver have good DACs according to the specs:  Burr-Brown 192kHz/24-bit DACs. 

You probably can hook it up like this:

1. VIA® VT1708S  HDMI/Optical/Coax out > Yamaha RX V665 > Headphones OR
2. VIA® VT1708S  HDMI/Optical/Coax out > Yamaha RX V665 > Pre-amp out > (Your future Amp here) > Headphones

The above setup is OK, but might be a headache to set up, and you might need extra stuff like Toslink/Optical/HDMI cables to get it properly running, assuming you have a graphic card that supports HDMI out. And whether it can stream audio through HDMI and that your Yamaha RX V665 will accept it is another matter, on that I don't really know. The amp in your receiver might not be that good SQ wise, but should be more than enough for your Shure.

First off, my Maverick A1 is a stopgap purchase until I get a Woo Audio 6/6SE, I am satisfied with my Essence ST as a DAC for now. Hence, I got my A1 as a replacement for the ST's built in amp.

I think the most cost effective way for you, or in other words, the cheapest solution with excellent audiophile SQ:

Internal: Xonar Essence STX or Auzentech X-Fi Forte 

External: Fiio E7+E9 DAC + Amp combo

If you just prefer to get an amp first, here are some but not limited to +/- 300$ choices:

1. Schiit Asgard (Solid State) 249$
2. Maverick A1 (Tube driven for headphones, solid state + tube for speakers) 199$
3. E9 (Solid State) around 110$

Either way, you can upgrade to a better DAC/Amp later on. Or if you want to be able to actually use your cans properly on your PC asap and don't want to spend a lot, get the Xonar DG, it's like 20$!!!! 

All of laxsar's suggestions are quite good and affordable, and his suggestion of just going straight from your VIA to receiver to headphones would be the most cost-effective way of managing what you already have, though you might need to scrounge up a $10-15 optical cable from the store (just get something cheap and well-made).

Keep in mind I'm a bit biased as I see few reasons to stick with a sound card if you're looking for the best possible playback.  Generally speaking, you want to get your music digitally out of your computer via USB, Firewire, or S/PDIF (the quality of each of those transports will vary depending on the piece of equipment you're using), and avoid using your sound card or onboard sound as a DAC.

Discrete DACs and amps generally hold their resale value better than computer components, it allows you to mix-and-match your hardware chain to your heart's content, the quality is generally higher, and you can swap them across different sources with ease, from jumping from a PC to Macbook Pro to iPod.

Either using your existing receiver or Xonar DG is the cheapest way of managing things, but if you want to build for something considerably higher quality, go with a discrete DAC and a separate headphone amp (I'd only recommend a few integrated units but they're all probably out of your current budget, like the Grace m903).

One thing I forgot to mention is that the Schiit Asgard and Valhalla headphone amps are targeted towards different types of headphones.  Asgard works better with low impedance loads (like Grados and Audeze), whereas the Valhalla does better with high impedance hardware.