Some OVERRATED High End Gear. - Page 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik 



They're only bought because they're cheap.

People are so eager for the glow of tubes that they will buy compromised equipment or amps where the tubes barely provide any amplification at all.

Also, I only run name-brand transformers. "Mystery meat" transformers are a risk I'm not willing to take.

If the cheapies ran good iron, they'd cost about the same as the amps that run good iron.

Those amps are not cheap because of labor costs. They're cheap because they run the cheapest possible power supply with the cheapest possible parts.

And, no, a very expensive and rare NOS tube rolled into it doesn't make a cheap power supply any better.

The post you quoted talked about Audio-GD gear as well. So, if you make that statement, I assume you have heard many Audio-GD solid state amps, as well as the tube amps you talk about? Do you have any experience with them, or just a 2 minute listen at a meet? 

I get your point about tube amps, but to take that, and apply it to all Chinese gear, even solid-state, is a bit ludicrous. 

On topic, anything dynamic is overrated here, and stats except the SR-007 and SR-009 are way underrated. Most head-fiers just don't consider electrostats. Too bad cause some of the affordable ones will wipe the floor with anything dynamic.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvrboy 

 

On topic, anything dynamic is overrated here, and stats except the SR-007 and SR-009 are way underrated. Most head-fiers just don't consider electrostats. Too bad cause some of the affordable ones will wipe the floor with anything dynamic.
 

 

Not really. 

I agree. No, not anything dynamic. Not necessarily even in the remote price range...

The electrostats have such a different sound signature that I don't think it's a better or worse argument, similar to how it's hard to say whether wine or beer is better.

That said, the cost to get into the higher-end electrostat gear is probably beyond what most people think is worth spending on listening to music.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian 

That said, the cost to get into the higher-end electrostat gear is probably beyond what most people think is worth spending on listening to music.

Most people are not relevant here. This is the High-End Audio forum.

Yes, but as an unfortunate consequence of that, very few people here have significant experience living with an electrostat setup.  Most people I see criticizing electrostats either only demoed them for 5-20 minutes, or are operating off of hearsay, but feel qualified to argue the merits of HD800 vs O2 to hell and back.

Based purely upon summit-fi regulars, there seem to be few people here who actually have lived with various dynamic and electrostatic setups, and experimented with numerous chains.

With some of the comments on the O2 here, you'd think Stax made an inappropriate pass at a lot of mothers.

One of the all-time worst sounding systems at the CES Shiw, was all Krell electronics pushing the top of the line Martin Logans.  That system made my ears bled.

The all time Best electrostatic loudspeaker was the Acoustat X's with the Acoustat direct drive OTL tube amps. Those were built back in the late 70's and no ESL has ever come close to the X's. In fact, those make every other ESL that ever has been made sound broken. With no transformers anywhere in the signal path, you had the most detailed and dynamic ESL ever made.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian 

Yes, but as an unfortunate consequence of that, very few people here have significant experience living with an electrostat setup.  Most people I see criticizing electrostats either only demoed them for 5-20 minutes, or are operating off of hearsay, but feel qualified to argue the merits of HD800 vs O2 to hell and back.

 

Based purely upon summit-fi regulars, there seem to be few people here who actually have lived with various dynamic and electrostatic setups, and experimented with numerous chains.

 

With some of the comments on the O2 here, you'd think Stax made an inappropriate pass at a lot of mothers.

http://hotronica.com/bang-and-olufsen-headphones/

I have always looked at Bose as the new Bang and Olufsen.  Overrated and pretty.

Real high end? I guess any Clearaudio Cartridge that comes close to 12K is starting to get in the overrated area. I used to think Nagra was overrated until I studied how some stuff was built then I was amazed. Maybe a lot of high end is well made if you start to really study how it's built. I think that some stuff actually takes an education just to understand what your looking at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzarkTom 

The all time Best electrostatic loudspeaker was the Acoustat X's with the Acoustat direct drive OTL tube amps. Those were built back in the late 70's and no ESL has ever come close to the X's. In fact, those make every other ESL that ever has been made sound broken. With no transformers anywhere in the signal path, you had the most detailed and dynamic ESL ever made.

Interesting.  You'd say that the Acoustats are clearly better than the Quads?  I've started looking at electrostatic speaker setups, but they seem so dependent on room acoustics for good performance.

I've been reading that electrostatic speakers are incredibly picky about having the right kind of amp, particularly to avoid arcing.  The amps as a whole seem pretty uncommon to come by nowadays.

Yes, much better than Quads. Quads cannot keep up with the bass, dynamics, or detail of the OTL DD Acoustats. The only drawback, these are so hard to find. But well worth it if you do. Don't mess with any of the Acoustats with the medallion transformers. The Quads are better than those. Quads sounds best with OTL tube amps, stay away from the tube amps with output transformers.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian 

Interesting.  You'd say that the Acoustats are clearly better than the Quads?  I've started looking at electrostatic speaker setups, but they seem so dependent on room acoustics for good performance.

 

I've been reading that electrostatic speakers are incredibly picky about having the right kind of amp, particularly to avoid arcing.  The amps as a whole seem pretty uncommon to come by nowadays.

Never heard them Acoustats but from all the read I did way back when, the problem is bass or lack-of. Properly matching it with a good dynamic bass speakers was a challenge,

a hybrid speaker system.

I used these Acoustats in very large and small rooms. They always sound fantastic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzarkTom 

Yes, much better than Quads. Quads cannot keep up with the bass, dynamics, or detail of the OTL DD Acoustats. The only drawback, these are so hard to find. But well worth it if you do. Don't mess with any of the Acoustats with the medallion transformers. The Quads are better than those. Quads sounds best with OTL tube amps, stay away from the tube amps with output transformers.
 

 

You are right about the Acoustats with the Medallion transformers, but that changes drastically with the DD servo amps. Transformers are the evil to electrostats big time.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuwhere 

Never heard them Acoustats but from all the read I did way back when, the problem is bass or lack-of. Properly matching it with a good dynamic bass speakers was a challenge,

a hybrid speaker system.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian 

Yes, but as an unfortunate consequence of that, very few people here have significant experience living with an electrostat setup.  Most people I see criticizing electrostats either only demoed them for 5-20 minutes, or are operating off of hearsay, but feel qualified to argue the merits of HD800 vs O2 to hell and back.

 

Based purely upon summit-fi regulars, there seem to be few people here who actually have lived with various dynamic and electrostatic setups, and experimented with numerous chains.

 

With some of the comments on the O2 here, you'd think Stax made an inappropriate pass at a lot of mothers.

So true. I belong to another forum where you could be thrown out if you go on about gear you have not heard. Here at Head-Fi many seem to use it as a social network and just want to hang out and talk. Even if they have nothing relevant to say. You might say that the World's largest headphone site is sometimes a victim of its own success. It is also considered acceptable here to turn differing takes on audio matters into disagreements bordering on personal hate. The moderators do a great job but the site is huge and things happen very fast on the web. Please and thank you would go far to improve the atmosphere here sometimes.

I think it can be a safe place to visit if you have a working BS filter, but it is unfortunate that it is needed.