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Some OVERRATED High End Gear. - Page 18

post #256 of 330

Saintly: Sure, several times with a few different amps (Icon HDP, Lehmann Black Cube, Beyer A1, Benchmark DAC-1). Also owned the Beyer 880 edition 2005 for a few months. Many love Beyer, it´s just that personally I´ve never understood what people like in them. Maybe they sound completely different with colored amplification (tubes and so forth)? And for the record, I wanted to like Beyer, I really did. Actually I wanted to like Beyer so much that I bought their classic (880) even though I didn´t like it when I auditioned it. That said, of course in threads like this you can find negative opinions of any popular gear out there. Very useful for "scanning" people though. If someone finds the same brands overrated, they often also like the same things.

 

rroseperry: That comment could easily be directed at anyone on this thread. By definition, in order for a product to be overrated in someone´s opinion, it has to be a popular one (and thus liked by several others). Obviously the point of this thread is not to prove anything objectively. Grado in particular is a "love or hate" thing usually. I have nothing against people liking them, there´s no need to get defensive in a thread like this. I´ve seen my favourites (Stax for example) getting called out here too :)


Edited by vrln - 11/26/11 at 11:29am
post #257 of 330
I read overrated not as "different from my tastes" but "quality is not up to the level of hype" but YMMV. It's not about objectivity, nothing much in hobby-land is, but the gap between perception and performance.
post #258 of 330

Well I would any day say the Grado and Beyer quality is not up to the level of hype as well. There is a huge gap between perception and performance with both brands if you ask me, but indeed, it´s all YMMV land. That´s why we have everything from NOS DAC + tubes guys to the pro audio types here. It´s all about finding people here with similar tastes.

 

EDIT: oh and the Grado 1/4 price comment only applies to EU... It´s not that bad elsewhere, but here it´s a complete joke with them.


Edited by vrln - 11/26/11 at 11:34am
post #259 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrln View Post

Well I would any day say the Grado and Beyer quality is not up to the level of hype as well. There is a huge gap between perception and performance with both brands if you ask me, but indeed, it´s all YMMV land. That´s why we have everything from NOS DAC + tubes guys to the pro audio types here. It´s all about finding people here with similar tastes.

EDIT: oh and the Grado 1/4 price comment only applies to EU... It´s not that bad elsewhere, but here it´s a complete joke with them.

Fair enough and Grado's pricing for the EU is demonstrably insane.
post #260 of 330

I like the Grado design, their gear looks nice. If I could get their mid-range/low end stuff for US prices I would actually buy something for portable use and to see if the sound signature grows on me. It´s just that locally when you go to try out Grado gear, at the same store you can get a HD 650 (or a HD 800) for the same price. Also regarding Grado I have to admit that I haven´t tried them with rock much, mostly electronica and audiophile music (Mark Knopfler, Diana Krall and so on). But at the local prices I just have to pass.

 

As for Beyer, listened to the 880 with everything possible, still just doesn´t do anything for me and in particular I don´t see what it does better than the competition (where does the hype come from?). The T1 would be ok for a 400-500 dollar headphone. The design is very comfortable too. Personally I think it competes with the HD 650 and 600 sound quality wise, a little bit better. But still a huge gap between performance and hype there too. 

 

Oh and I´m a self-confessed Sennheiser and Stax fan :)

 

EDIT: and yes, my initial comments were quite strong, maybe a bit too much... Thought of this thread as a sort of a "free zone".


Edited by vrln - 11/26/11 at 11:45am
post #261 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintly View Post



Quite a generalization there.  Have you heard a T1?

I have on multiple setups and every time that generalization fits.

I do, however really like the DT880 and T5p. Not a fan of any other Beyers though.
post #262 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post


I have on multiple setups and every time that generalization fits.
I do, however really like the DT880 and T5p. Not a fan of any other Beyers though.


You think the T1 is overrated but really like the T5p at about the same price level?  Talk about the subjectivity of this hobby...

post #263 of 330
I can't recommend the lower end Grados for portable use, too much sound leaks. But they're pretty hard to beat for rock, it's true. I got the 880s and until I got an amp for them, thought the sound was on the thin side. Beyerdynamics just have the clarity I like without breaking the bank (which is what a Stax set up would mean for me).
post #264 of 330

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rroseperry View Post

I can't recommend the lower end Grados for portable use, too much sound leaks. But they're pretty hard to beat for rock, it's true. I got the 880s and until I got an amp for them, thought the sound was on the thin side. Beyerdynamics just have the clarity I like without breaking the bank (which is what a Stax set up would mean for me).


Have you tried AKG K701? To my ears they succeed at what I think Beyer is trying to go for. Now the K701 is probably one of the most hated headphones on this forum, and there I´d have to say the exact opposite as with Beyer: I have no idea where the hate comes from. And these days they are cheap too. The clarity on Beyer is very nice, it´s just that their treble presentation drives me crazy. Not that fond of the bass either. There seem to be huge differences in treble sensitivity though, I´ve met several people who have pretty much the same music taste as I do and they love Beyer and feel they aren´t bright at all. 

 

EDIT: if I see some cheap used Grado I think I might just try them - they are the only major headphone brand I have no "real" experience of. Maybe there is something to the whole "Grado + Rock" thing...


Edited by vrln - 11/26/11 at 12:24pm
post #265 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrln View Post




Have you tried AKG K701? To my ears they succeed at what I think Beyer is trying to go for. Now the K701 is probably one of the most hated headphones on this forum, and there I´d have to say the exact opposite as with Beyer: I have no idea where the hate comes from. And these days they are cheap too. The clarity on Beyer is very nice, it´s just that their treble presentation drives me crazy. Not that fond of the bass either. There seem to be huge differences in treble sensitivity though, I´ve met several people who have pretty much the same music taste as I do and they love Beyer and feel they aren´t bright at all. 

No, I've stayed away from them, largely due to the uneven reception they get here. I didn't see them at the one meet I've attended, so there's been no chance to check them out. I'll keep an eye out for them, thanks for the tip.
post #266 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by vrln View Post

 


Have you tried AKG K701? To my ears they succeed at what I think Beyer is trying to go for. Now the K701 is probably one of the most hated headphones on this forum, and there I´d have to say the exact opposite as with Beyer: I have no idea where the hate comes from. And these days they are cheap too. The clarity on Beyer is very nice, it´s just that their treble presentation drives me crazy. Not that fond of the bass either. There seem to be huge differences in treble sensitivity though, I´ve met several people who have pretty much the same music taste as I do and they love Beyer and feel they aren´t bright at all. 

 

EDIT: if I see some cheap used Grado I think I might just try them - they are the only major headphone brand I have no "real" experience of. Maybe there is something to the whole "Grado + Rock" thing...


My favorite can (in comparison to Beyer DT880, Denon D-2000) prior to getting the T1 was AKG K702.  I absolutely loved the expansive soundstage and the noticeable step-up in clarity it had over the DT880 and D-2000s.  I didn't even find the bass lacking in the K702 and thought they were perfect until I heard the T1.

 

Doing A/B comparisons between the K702 and the T1, the K702 sounded too thin and the treble was quite fatiguing over the entire range of highs (unlike the T1 with a sharp spike at around 9 KHz, which is barely noticeable for most music).  The most unexpected observation of the comparison was how the K702 suddenly seemed to lack detail and resolution.  After that, I retired the K702s...

 

post #267 of 330

The K701 needs quite a bit of voltage gain and sounds like garbage with amps that can't provide this, I think that's where a lot of the hate comes from.

post #268 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

The K701 needs quite a bit of voltage gain and sounds like garbage with amps that can't provide this, I think that's where a lot of the hate comes from.


I think its "legendary" amping requirements are blown out of proportion; very akin to broscience on bodybuilding forums.

 

Why does it need so much voltage given its low impedance?  Also, voltage and current are intimately related via resistance.  Providing a good amount of either through an amp will translate to power.

 

 

post #269 of 330

Isn't the sensitivity a bit low?  Something like 93 dB/mW compared to 103 dB/mW for the HD650, for example.

post #270 of 330

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintly View Post


I think its "legendary" amping requirements are blown out of proportion; very akin to broscience on bodybuilding forums.

 

Why does it need so much voltage given its low impedance?  Also, voltage and current are intimately related via resistance.  Providing a good amount of either through an amp will translate to power.

All I can do is relate my experience with them k701smile.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by n3rdling View Post

Isn't the sensitivity a bit low?  Something like 93 dB/mW compared to 103 dB/mW for the HD650, for example.


And there you go.

 

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