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Some OVERRATED High End Gear. - Page 15

post #211 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud View Post

I think there's also some confusion between people's will to do something and inner complexity of nowadays devices. For instance, repairing an iPhone, I mean, even just disassembly the thing without breaking it (ifixit.com) is a feat in itself! Let alone thinking about "repairing" some component on a board. Fixing a car: yes sure 70's design could be worked on in a home garage, nowadays injection systems and many other functions are regulated by electronics and there's little you can do with a couple of wrenches...


Yes and no. The disappearance of the dip-stick in favor of a computer controlled oil life monitor is troubling to a lot of people, and you can tell by some of the engine covers in cars today that they have been designed for owners to not even attempt to open the hood. On the other hand, if you are a VW or Audi owner and you have a VAG-COM cable and a Laptop, you can actually do quite a bit of work yourself, and there are communities on places like VWVortex and Audi World or Fourtitude that can help. I'm not as familiar with BMW and Mercedes, but I suspect that there are strong DIY communities there as well.

 

There's also a positive side to this complexity. While you may not be able to fix your iPhone or Droid at home the way you could with your old Ma Bell rotary, you also have a computer in your pocket. Jobs and Woz could only dream about that kind of thing when they were making Apple computers in a garage. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to '70s era engines either.

post #212 of 330

As an aside.  There is nothing special about VW/Audi.  All cars are OBDII compliant and w/ the proper scan tool, laptop and connector offer basically the same features as far as the end user is concerned.  Also some 70's and 80's engines are superior from an engineering standpoint and offer certain benefits performance wise actually.  Today's world of cost cutting will never be able to match the reliability, durability and performance thresholds wrt over engineering that took place in the 80's and 90's.  Think of those older engine designs and blocks like NOS tubes.  The only engine designed today for 1000+hp is the Veyron's quad turbo'd W16.  I can think of some older straight sixes that will do that probably more reliably over a longer life than the Veyron.

 

So yeah, corporate costs, social and cultural change, electronic complexity, etc. all conspire against what could have been the modern diyer.  Regardless, people that like to get their hands dirty will find a way to do so anyways.  I'm sure many folks used to get their hands dirty because they didn't really have a choice.  Just think if we all had to go back to milking our own cows.


Edited by Anaxilus - 9/15/11 at 9:11pm
post #213 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

As an aside.  There is nothing special about VW/Audi.  All cars are OBDII compliant and w/ the proper scan tool, laptop and connector offer basically the same features as far as the end user is concerned.  Also some 70's and 80's engines are superior from an engineering standpoint and offer certain benefits performance wise actually.  Today's world of cost cutting will never be able to match the reliability, durability and performance thresholds wrt over engineering that took place in the 80's and 90's.  Think of those older engine designs and blocks like NOS tubes.  The only engine designed today for 1000+hp is the Veyron's quad turbo'd W16.  I can think of some older straight sixes that will do that probably more reliably over a longer life than the Veyron.


'70s engines are a joke. Eight litres to make 300hp is not an achievement to be proud of, and once the air regs came in, you had V8s that made less power than a 4 cyl Honda Accord. There were some all time great cars made in those days (Ferrari 288 GTO and F40, Porsche 959 etc) but the vast majority were absolutely terrible. Some engines like the Supra and GT-R sixes were indeed incredibly strong and could handle ridiculous power. I don't know how reliable they were when pushed that hard, though. Certainly I don't think you could take a bone stock Supra Turbo, crank up the boost to 1,000hp worth, and expect it to last very long.

 

Modern engines from Pagani, Koenigsseg, Gumpert, etc could all easily hit 1,000hp I'm sure if their designers felt a need for it.

 

post #214 of 330
Imo, only get the stax if the 5 grand is not that precious to you, if not then get something elsese
post #215 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

As an aside.  There is nothing special about VW/Audi.  All cars are OBDII compliant and w/ the proper scan tool, laptop and connector offer basically the same features as far as the end user is concerned.  Also some 70's and 80's engines are superior from an engineering standpoint and offer certain benefits performance wise actually.  Today's world of cost cutting will never be able to match the reliability, durability and performance thresholds wrt over engineering that took place in the 80's and 90's.  Think of those older engine designs and blocks like NOS tubes.  The only engine designed today for 1000+hp is the Veyron's quad turbo'd W16.  I can think of some older straight sixes that will do that probably more reliably over a longer life than the Veyron.

 

So yeah, corporate costs, social and cultural change, electronic complexity, etc. all conspire against what could have been the modern diyer.  Regardless, people that like to get their hands dirty will find a way to do so anyways.  I'm sure many folks used to get their hands dirty because they didn't really have a choice.  Just think if we all had to go back to milking our own cows.


Well the USA made SSC Ultimate Aero 387.2 cu.in. V8 twin turbo does 1287 bhp @ 6075 rpm. Their SSC Tuatara 7 liter V8 twin turbo will do 1350 bhp.

 

post #216 of 330

Now OT reply:
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBSC View Post
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

I'm looking at stock engine design specs not factory output numbers.  Factory numbers mean squat about an engines capability, especially back then.  As a hobbyist race engine builder let me tell you those 70's blocks from GM and Ford are highly sought after and far more durable than your stock blocks rolling in the current base Camaro, Corvette and Mustang today.  The metallurgy and specs of those older blocks whether old American V8 iron or Japanese I-6 are vastly superior for massive sustained HP and durability compared to any typical equivalent stock block today designed for mileage and emissions.  Your Big block 300hp V8 could turn into a 650hp monster w/ a simple head swap.  Hitting up the cams and reciprocating internals will get you too 800-1000hp easy as long as the heads flow which is not a problem.  Same w/ the I-6's w/o as much head or port work due to more efficient design and boost.

 

Pagani uses AMG engines which are utter crap.  MB disposes of those by the bushell at dealerships.  Their 'handcrafted' V8/V12 process is pathetic and sub par compared to how Nissan builds the V6 in the GTR.  It's just some dude in a black polo wearing Khakis wrenching away.  Nissan uses a climate controlled lab w/ technicians in bunny suits.  Koenigsegg uses a standard modern 4.7L V8 you'd find in a Mustang or F-Series pickup.  Gumpert uses a blown version of the Audi 4.2L you'd find in an S4.  Don't mistake their tailor made benchmark performance numbers and sky high price to indicate engineering prowess.  All 3 are basically glorified Kit cars except for Pagani who has taken things up a notch in recent years w/ their chassis and CF work.  

 

Those old blocks are still being raced all over the world today and will continue to be when the current blocks wear out after 150k miles and get crushed or recycled.

 

 

 

post #217 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuwhere View Post


Well the USA made SSC Ultimate Aero 387.2 cu.in. V8 twin turbo does 1287 bhp @ 6075 rpm. Their SSC Tuatara 7 liter V8 twin turbo will do 1350 bhp.

 


Yup, and I would be highly shocked if it was using a current aluminum block designed w/ emissions and mileage in mind.  Though when you design for dyno queen numbers or benchmarks you don't need to build for durability.  You just need to cross the finish line before things blow up.  That's the perfect race car by definition.

 

Edit - I see they switched to an aluminum block in 2008 to save weight.  Like I said, it only has to cross the finish line.  People won't be putting 100k miles on these types of cars.  Usually 65 miles before it hits Ebay.

 


Edited by Anaxilus - 9/15/11 at 10:21pm
post #218 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBSC View Post




'70s engines are a joke. Eight litres to make 300hp is not an achievement to be proud of, and once the air regs came in, you had V8s that made less power than a 4 cyl Honda Accord. There were some all time great cars made in those days (Ferrari 288 GTO and F40, Porsche 959 etc) but the vast majority were absolutely terrible. Some engines like the Supra and GT-R sixes were indeed incredibly strong and could handle ridiculous power. I don't know how reliable they were when pushed that hard, though. Certainly I don't think you could take a bone stock Supra Turbo, crank up the boost to 1,000hp worth, and expect it to last very long.

 

Modern engines from Pagani, Koenigsseg, Gumpert, etc could all easily hit 1,000hp I'm sure if their designers felt a need for it.

 


Not for nothing, but you're talking about cars that are 40 years old and judging them by today's standards. I'm sure that in the 1970's they used to look back at cars in the 1930's and call them a joke too, just like I'm sure that in 2050 they'll look back and call our cars jokes. All that means is that we're seeing progress.
post #219 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBSC View Post




'70s engines are a joke. Eight litres to make 300hp is not an achievement to be proud of, and once the air regs came in, you had V8s that made less power than a 4 cyl Honda Accord. There were some all time great cars made in those days (Ferrari 288 GTO and F40, Porsche 959 etc) but the vast majority were absolutely terrible. Some engines like the Supra and GT-R sixes were indeed incredibly strong and could handle ridiculous power. I don't know how reliable they were when pushed that hard, though. Certainly I don't think you could take a bone stock Supra Turbo, crank up the boost to 1,000hp worth, and expect it to last very long.

 

Modern engines from Pagani, Koenigsseg, Gumpert, etc could all easily hit 1,000hp I'm sure if their designers felt a need for it.

 


Not for nothing, but you're talking about cars that are 40 years old and judging them by today's standards. I'm sure that in the 1970's they used to look back at cars in the 1930's and call them a joke too, just like I'm sure that in 2050 they'll look back and call our cars jokes. All that means is that we're seeing progress.


That's nothing, the starship enterprise goes at 4 billion miles a second, no wonder Jean Luc Picard's got no hair. Sorry that was kind of a silly joke.
 

 

 


Edited by David1961 - 9/16/11 at 8:12am
post #220 of 330

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David1961 View Post

That's nothing, the starship enterprise goes at 4 billion miles a second, no wonder Jean Luc Picard's got no hair. Sorry that was kind of a silly joke.


Now would be the time to corner the market in dilithium crystals then...

 

Dilithiumcrystals.jpg

post #221 of 330
The dilithium crystals were secretly replaced with Folger's Crystals.

No one could tell the difference.
post #222 of 330

Sonicweld Diverter HR. $2,888 for a USB converter. I would REALLY like to see the cost of this thing justified.

post #223 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveBSC View Post

Sonicweld Diverter HR. $2,888 for a USB converter. I would REALLY like to see the cost of this thing justified.



Isn't there an atomic clock inside it? rolleyes.gif

post #224 of 330

It looks like something from the TARDIS. I don't know if there are any Doctor Who fans around?

post #225 of 330

Doctor Who is definitely overrated.

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