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Burn in - Two Sides - Page 2

post #16 of 23
9/14/11 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizardKing1 View Post

I lol'ed at this statement:

"it's confirmed that the headphones sound the same before burn-in."

So you went out, tested ALL the headphones in the world and then wrote this? You can't say something like that. It should be more like "from what I've read on tests online, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference on most models".

 

Also Tyll made a test and the results weren't to your liking, so automatically it was flawed and any sound difference was because of anything else besides burn-in. But if he had said it sounded the same the test would be more conclusive right?


I think you completely missed the meaning of that sentence. That or you're really grasping at a change to misquote me. Reread it.

 

His test was flawed and inconclusive. He said himself that it's inconclusive, though I don't know if he admitted directly to it being flawed. The test wouldn't have been more conclusive if he couldn't hear a difference because he didn't try before burn-in. If he heard no difference, it's still possible the headphones sounded different at first and the burned-in headphone changed to match the other.

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post #17 of 23
9/14/11 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Head Injury View Post

His test was flawed and inconclusive. He said himself that it's inconclusive, though I don't know if he admitted directly to it being flawed. 


I wouldn't say it was flawed in the sense that I knew I was only providing fairly good anecdotal information and I think I did accomplish that.  But you are absolutely correct in that it is not conclusive ... though I'm convinced the phenomina exists, in much smaller measure than commonly reported here, however.

 


Edited by Tyll Hertsens - 9/14/11 at 6:55pm
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post #18 of 23
9/15/11 at 8:20pm
Thread Starter 

We can all agree that everything mechanical wears in; it changes, if that is audible as LizardKing stated is a different story but for certain the drivers do change. 

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post #19 of 23
9/16/11 at 2:16am
No, not everything mechanical wears in. Look at watches and clocks. If they're made correctly, they operate the same for decades or longer.

It has to be demonstrated that headphones change. Further, that every change is beneficial. Plenty of stuff degrades with use. It has yet to be proved that headphones not only change, but that the change is an improvement.

That people think that every change is an "improvement" (as opposed to degradation) makes me suspicious of claims.
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post #20 of 23
9/16/11 at 2:32am
Thread Starter 

I can not confirm if clocks become worn over time (more then decades).  I can't imagine being enclosed and with such little stress on the components that it will wear quickly.  Surely though, with normal use and time, a clock will degrade in some aspect?

You are correct though, what/ who is to say the changes are beneficial?  My main point is that while the driver may change, it doesn't mean you will hear a change.

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post #21 of 23
9/16/11 at 2:34pm

Even a quartz LCD watch wears out and I'm not talking batteries.  Mechanical and automatic watches need to be adjusted periodically.  Simple fact.  The frequency and interval depends on the quality of the components and design.  They seem durable because they are actively lubricated, do little actual work and spread the stresses out over a plethora of teeth and gears.  In fact it will usually be the spring or tourbillon that gives out for obvious reasons.  Oddly enough, the speaker surround acts as a spring and is also taking most of the abuse.

 

The problem is two-fold.  First, the misconception of the term and how it is used by people that have no idea what they are talking about.  Second, those who are simply not open to any possibilities beyond their own experience or bias.

 

I'd say I 'believe' I have experienced the phenomena 20%-30% of the phones I've tried which can be seen in my sig and Departed album.  10% of that 20%-30% has been for the worse.  The fact that I'm pretty careful about my methodology for ABing and the fact it's just a logical mechanical process makes sense to me.  Of course there are measurements to show change and the question now becomes one of audibility.  

 

I'd say more about some myths and false preconceptions that keep getting spread around by both sides but I'm frankly burned-out on burn-in.

 


Edited by Anaxilus - 9/16/11 at 2:40pm
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post #22 of 23
9/16/11 at 4:23pm
Thread Starter 

That is right Anaxilus!

People are misusing the term, I will admit to it.  I have in the past fell into the trap of "burn-in", I was sitting on the fence though, I have never thought a speaker will improve but I keep it in mind.  I am not biased towards any side and am happy to just take in all the info that I can.  Can we define "burn-in"?

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&sa=X&pwst=1&q=burn-in&tbs=dfn:1&tbo=u&ei=Y9NzTpeGKIGZiAfv0_24DQ&ved=0CBwQkQ4&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=2521e913ca49df0f&biw=1920&bih=1024

After some research I was unable to find it defined as, "a process in which an acoustical transducer is used for an extended period of time; altering the audible characteristics of the driver's components through either normal or deliberate use."  Maybe I should be searching for SPEAKER burn-in...

When I searched for definitions of "wear-in" it described how the piston rings rub up against the rough surface of the cylinder to make it a perfect fit.  The manual to the family car also states for the first 1500km to drive on long trips and discourages city driving, to allow the engine to be broken-in.  Searching "broken-in" brings me back to the engine theory. 

So the question is, do speakers "wear-in" to make a perfect fit?  That does not make sense to me, the coil is not meant to rub up against the magnet gap.  If the glue holding the dust cap or surround to the cone has melted it won't simply reflow...  Burn-in, generally means to use a device in order to discover faults.  So you can burn-in your headphones; you could by definition, run them at their max rated power and see what happens, it would be useless as the manufacturer already runs the needed tests.

Then of course we have the natural process of mechanical and even SS such as electronics that degrade or wear-out over time.  The interesting thing is, if we search these terms it is always negative.  It is a matter of if you believe a speaker can be broken-in like an engine to make everything fit perfectly!

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post #23 of 23
9/16/11 at 9:06pm

There's two sides to headphone break-in? I guess for some people, they either believe or don't.

 

Given that neither side has come up with compelling evidence, I think it's more sensible to believe that there are quite a few sides to break-in. Believe, disbelief, and a range of opinions in between.

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