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LCD-2 / Bifrost / Lyr

post #1 of 39
Thread Starter 

Hi guys, wasn't sure quite where to post this one as it includes a bit of everything......

 

Basically over the next few months i'm going to be upgrading my system to a Schiit Bifrost, Lyr & Audeze LCD-2 (I'm currently running Ultrasone Pro 900 / HD600, LD MK V & Saffire 6).

 

Unfortunately being only 20 years old i can't quite afford to buy them all at once so it's going to have to be a gradual process :-( 

I've decided to get the Audeze last as they are the most expensive but now i'm torn between whether to pre-order a Bifrost now and buy a Lyr around the same time next month when the Bifrost is released to get them both at the same time, or whether to just get a Lyr now? 

The reason i'm struggling so much with what to do is because i don't know if the Lyr itself will work well with my Pro900s & HD600s and whether or not it will damage them....?

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks

 

post #2 of 39

The LCD-2 is going to have by far the biggest impact on the sound. If I were you I'd get it first, expensive or not.

 

I wouldn't even worry about a new amp or DAC for a while. The MK V will supply plenty of power if manufacturer specs are to be believed. The Saffire doesn't look that great for the price as a simple DAC, but at least they publish more than a couple specs like Schiit.

post #3 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Head Injury View Post

The LCD-2 is going to have by far the biggest impact on the sound. If I were you I'd get it first, expensive or not.

 

I wouldn't even worry about a new amp or DAC for a while. The MK V will supply plenty of power if manufacturer specs are to be believed. The Saffire doesn't look that great for the price as a simple DAC, but at least they publish more than a couple specs like Schiit.



I use the Saffire as a full interface for music production an DJ'ing, it's currently used as a DAC as lack of alternative at the moment.

 

I couldn't find anything online about the MK V with an LCD-2 so i assumed that it wouldn't have enough power. Thanks for the input :-) i suppose i can gradually update the rest of the equipment afterwards. And by then people will actually have a Bifrost for impressions.

post #4 of 39

Up grade to the Zodiac + or gold when you upgrade.  Have I heard them?!  Nope.  mOgwai has and he feels they are great and can run any HP out there.  They are also a dec/amp combo.  I'd rather get one item to do both.  Thats just my thoughts though.  You have yours.  Good luck

Aloha

 

post #5 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaiiancerveza View Post

Up grade to the Zodiac + or gold when you upgrade.  Have I heard them?!  Nope.  mOgwai has and he feels they are great and can run any HP out there.  They are also a dec/amp combo.  I'd rather get one item to do both.  Thats just my thoughts though.  You have yours.  Good luck

Aloha

 



I'd love to but its WAY out of my price range..... as brilliant as it looks. As expensive as this hobby is, at least it's productive!!

post #6 of 39

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by cricketbaby View Post

The reason i'm struggling so much with what to do is because i don't know if the Lyr itself will work well with my Pro900s & HD600s and whether or not it will damage them....?

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks

 


I have the 900s, and the Lyr arriving today (for the LCDs), I have asked, and some people say not to connect them, and others say it's fine so long as you are judicious with the volume.

 

I'll report back, personally I think at reasonable volumes it ought not be a problem, but again, I'll let you know what happens when they're plugged in to the Lyr vs directly into my source (most stand alone sources ;CD players, receivers, and such can drive the 900s fine so a dedicated amp for them isn't really even necessary.)

 

post #7 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by obzilla View Post

 




I have the 900s, and the Lyr arriving today (for the LCDs), I have asked, and some people say not to connect them, and others say it's fine so long as you are judicious with the volume.

 

I'll report back, personally I think at reasonable volumes it ought not be a problem, but again, I'll let you know what happens when they're plugged in to the Lyr vs directly into my source (most stand alone sources ;CD players, receivers, and such can drive the 900s fine so a dedicated amp for them isn't really even necessary.)

 

 

I agree with the amping for the Ultrasones, they really don't need an amp at all. There is a difference between the head out on my Saffire compared to my LD MK V, but they sound fine either way. 

I'd imagine, as you said, that plugging them into the Lyr with low volume shouldn't really be a problem as long as you're careful (and i can always turn the gain right the way down on my Saffire if needs be). Looking forward to hearing you're thoughts.

I think i've decided just to go straight for the LCD-2 mind. I suppose it makes sense to upgrade from there and i can hope the LD MK V does a decent job in the mean time
 

 

post #8 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaiiancerveza View Post

Up grade to the Zodiac + or gold when you upgrade.  Have I heard them?!  Nope.  mOgwai has and he feels they are great and can run any HP out there.  They are also a dec/amp combo.  I'd rather get one item to do both.  Thats just my thoughts though.  You have yours.  Good luck

Aloha

 


Mogwai is also selling them so he has incentive to give it rave reviews.  

 

Can't comment on the DAC as the bifrost hasn't come out yet, but the headphone section of the zodiac+ that I tested vs the lyr with the LCD-2, the lyr had much more obvious heft/weight and authority when driving the LCD-2.  The Zodiac+ has a great DAC but the headphone amp is somewhat of an afterthought.  Better combos (like the burson or the stagedac/concerto or used rwa) can be had for substantially less.

 

For the price of the zodiac gold, you could get a like new berkeley alpha or many other used reference DACs that are in a class of their own.

 

post #9 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by cricketbaby View Post

I couldn't find anything online about the MK V with an LCD-2 so i assumed that it wouldn't have enough power.


The LCD-2 is less sensitive than most headphones, but it's still not as hard to drive as everyone thinks. I can get adequate volume from a Clip+, but I don't listen very loud than there's next to no overhead.

 

The MK V outputs 500mW at 32 ohms and 250mW at 120 ohms. The LCD-2 has 60 ohm impedance, so it probably gets at least 300mW or so. That's more than enough, even if you listen really loud to quiet albums. The MK V appears optimized for high impedance loads, but that doesn't mean it's a wimp when it comes to low ones. The quoted 0.05% THD+N is high considering it's into a high impedance load and at half the maximum rated power, but it's probably no worse than the Lyr.

 

Speaking of the Lyr, it can put something like 3W into 60 ohms. That's far more than anyone would ever need, and would be enough to make the LCD-2 cause hearing damage within seconds. It's overkill for the sake of overkill. Even the HE-6 wouldn't need that much power, and it needs approximately five times as much to reach the same volume.

post #10 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Head Injury View Post


The LCD-2 is less sensitive than most headphones, but it's still not as hard to drive as everyone thinks. I can get adequate volume from a Clip+, but I don't listen very loud than there's next to no overhead.

 

The MK V outputs 500mW at 32 ohms and 250mW at 120 ohms. The LCD-2 has 60 ohm impedance, so it probably gets at least 300mW or so. That's more than enough, even if you listen really loud to quiet albums. The MK V appears optimized for high impedance loads, but that doesn't mean it's a wimp when it comes to low ones. The quoted 0.05% THD+N is high considering it's into a high impedance load and at half the maximum rated power, but it's probably no worse than the Lyr.

 

Speaking of the Lyr, it can put something like 3W into 60 ohms. That's far more than anyone would ever need, and would be enough to make the LCD-2 cause hearing damage within seconds. It's overkill for the sake of overkill. Even the HE-6 wouldn't need that much power, and it needs approximately five times as much to reach the same volume.


Yeah, i know it's a complete overkill (whether it be a marketing ploy or whatever). Thanks for all the advice. Now i suppose i need to decide whether to get the LCD soonish or wait till next payday (end of September). I probably good if i sold my HD 600s with 650 cable but i'm a bit too lazy to be putting things on ebay. We'll see....

 

post #11 of 39

Well he told me the reason he's selling it.  I already told him I didn't have the money but just wanted to know about it.  I know what he's after.  I'd do the same if I were in his shoes.  Nothing wrong with that.  But for a dac that costs that much it better sound dang good.  beerchug.gif  

 

I do agree that if you can get a good dec for less is a MUST.  My wife would kill me if I got the Zodiac amp at this moment.  I wouldn't mind hearing it.  But sorry for derailing the thread.  Back to the subject.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio_head View Post




Mogwai is also selling them so he has incentive to give it rave reviews.  

 

Can't comment on the DAC as the bifrost hasn't come out yet, but the headphone section of the zodiac+ that I tested vs the lyr with the LCD-2, the lyr had much more obvious heft/weight and authority when driving the LCD-2.  The Zodiac+ has a great DAC but the headphone amp is somewhat of an afterthought.  Better combos (like the burson or the stagedac/concerto or used rwa) can be had for substantially less.

 

For the price of the zodiac gold, you could get a like new berkeley alpha or many other used reference DACs that are in a class of their own.

 



 


Edited by Hawaiiancerveza - 8/31/11 at 12:15pm
post #12 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Head Injury View Post


The LCD-2 is less sensitive than most headphones, but it's still not as hard to drive as everyone thinks. I can get adequate volume from a Clip+, but I don't listen very loud than there's next to no overhead.

 

The MK V outputs 500mW at 32 ohms and 250mW at 120 ohms. The LCD-2 has 60 ohm impedance, so it probably gets at least 300mW or so. That's more than enough, even if you listen really loud to quiet albums. The MK V appears optimized for high impedance loads, but that doesn't mean it's a wimp when it comes to low ones. The quoted 0.05% THD+N is high considering it's into a high impedance load and at half the maximum rated power, but it's probably no worse than the Lyr.

 

Speaking of the Lyr, it can put something like 3W into 60 ohms. That's far more than anyone would ever need, and would be enough to make the LCD-2 cause hearing damage within seconds. It's overkill for the sake of overkill. Even the HE-6 wouldn't need that much power, and it needs approximately five times as much to reach the same volume.



I'm going to disagree with you a bit there.  It's not neccesarily about what's absolutely needed to drive the HE-6 or the LCD-2, as you pointed one can get a decent volume when using a decent amp like Fiio's E9 for example.  However, if one want to get the best performance out those aformentioned orthos then amps with real power are needed to excercise the best possible control over those drivers.  There's a reason why many use speaker amps with many of Hifiman's headphones.

post #13 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by cricketbaby View Post

Hi guys, wasn't sure quite where to post this one as it includes a bit of everything......

 

Basically over the next few months i'm going to be upgrading my system to a Schiit Bifrost, Lyr & Audeze LCD-2 (I'm currently running Ultrasone Pro 900 / HD600, LD MK V & Saffire 6).

 

Unfortunately being only 20 years old i can't quite afford to buy them all at once so it's going to have to be a gradual process :-( 

I've decided to get the Audeze last as they are the most expensive but now i'm torn between whether to pre-order a Bifrost now and buy a Lyr around the same time next month when the Bifrost is released to get them both at the same time, or whether to just get a Lyr now? 

The reason i'm struggling so much with what to do is because i don't know if the Lyr itself will work well with my Pro900s & HD600s and whether or not it will damage them....?

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks

 


Heya,

 

I have the Lyr. It will not damage anything. I even tried to blow up some cheap headphones to see. It just won't. It will work great with any headphone you plug into it, and will especially work well with an ortho that can be fed endless amounts of power. So if you want the Lyr, get the Lyr.

 

Really, I'd suggest getting the LCD-2 first. It's a rather efficient headphone so will power off nearly any desktop amp you have. Then slowly work your way to a new DAC/AMP. I'd start with the headphone since you can already use it fine before spending another $900 on DAC/AMP which, truthfully, may not sound that different to you once you get them after you've already listened to the LCD2 for a while on what you have.

 

Very best,

 

post #14 of 39

Just slowly save up :] My current rig is nfd-12>Lyr>LCD2

Currently waiting for the bifrost to get released so I can sell my nfd-12

post #15 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital-Pride View Post

I'm going to disagree with you a bit there.  It's not neccesarily about what's absolutely needed to drive the HE-6 or the LCD-2, as you pointed one can get a decent volume when using a decent amp like Fiio's E9 for example.  However, if one want to get the best performance out those aformentioned orthos then amps with real power are needed to excercise the best possible control over those drivers.  There's a reason why many use speaker amps with many of Hifiman's headphones.


And that reason is because they think it helps.

 

It would be great if more power that's not actually being used helps driver control. Then we'd know exactly what we need from an amp: more power! Someone would have to prove that it does matter, though. As long as there's 10-20dB overhead, why wouldn't that extra unused power be enough to prevent clipping and ensure a clean signal? Why do we need 40dB of overhead?

 

Unfortunately some of these high powered amps might not necessarily perform that great themselves. I wouldn't want to trust my headphone's performance to an amp with few published measurements just because it might hypothetically control drivers better for no apparent reason.

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