The Truth, the whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth! - Page 2

What about headphone replacement cables? I think almost all believe that it makes a great difference compared to the standard sennheiser cables. If this is true, then one might expect it to be also true with ICs.

Hmmm...how many of you guys DONT hear any differences in BOTH the Sennheiser replacement cables vs. standard cables & The expensive ICs vs. the cheapo brands?

I believe there are certainly diminishing returns when it comes to cables. The only one I found to sound really different was Cardas Neutral References. It's really weird. You really ought to hear those.

Most people at Ars and the zoo known as [H] simply do not know any better and argue due to their "logic" of skepticism without any experience at all.

(Except for Orpheus, haha)

The big issue for me is eliminating interference and noise in my system. I have too many computers running at once, and they put out all sorts of bad ju ju.

Orpheus has helped me cure part of that problem

-Ed

I think the main difference is that the wimpy stock Sennheiser HD580/600 cables were just that. Wimpy. I guess someone could measure what the electrical resistance and current flow are in the stock vs. aftermarkets.

I know that when I upgraded my power cables, I saw an increase in voltage draw from my Amp. I guess even the 16 gauge shielded computer cable wasn't enough. I guess it was being starved a bit for power.

-Ed

How? I have the same problem with interference & noise.

he gave me his Grace amp for free. no more audible interference & noise. did him a HUGE favor!

The truth? No such animal. You need to listen and decide for yourself.

Best method I know is to listen for a long period to one cable that becomes your reference. Then switch to a new cable, and use it for an extended period (weeks). Then go back to your reference. If you hear a loss going back to your reference, then you need to start A/B testing to try and pin down just what the differences are. Finally, you can make a judgement about just how much those differences, if any, are worth to you.

All I know is when I made the switch from having no RCA cables to even "crappy" radio shack cables, it was a HUGE difference. Like the difference between on and off!!



Seriously though, when I went from Radio Shack to Signal Cable Analog Twos I could tell the difference. But I couldn't tell the difference between Signal Cable Analog Twos and ZuCable OxyFuels. But I could tell the difference between these two and Grado Signature IC's. And I could hear an increase in detail from the Zu Gedes to the Grado Signature IC's.

So I guess I'm a believer in cables in moderation, but not for emptying out my wallet to squeeze out every last bit of juicy information that I may or may not hear... That and I'd rather spend the money on musical instrument related equipment. To each their own I guess.

Cables matter.

I had that forcefully brought to my attention recently when I auditioned a set of Audioquest Diamondbacks on my system and discovered that "different" doesn't necessarily mean "better."

BW

I agree with what Hirsch said. Try it for yourself and if it is worth it to you to spend the $ and if you hear a difference, than more power to you.

I don't think there should be a set rule that you have to spend a percentage of your total systems cost on cables. A $300 cable is not always going to be twice as good as a $150 cable. It is whatever sounds good to you. I think the differences in sound, if any are a lot smaller than people let on.

Pah! Dunlavey also sells his own fancy aftermarket cables (or used to, it looks like he's out of business now), so I take any of his statements with a grain of salt and as marketing materials for his own cables. "Hey I don't want to be ripped off by cable flim-flammery, I better buy them from a guy who doesn't believe in most of that stuff." His comments make that kind of buyer more comfortable getting their cables from a guy that seems to debunk them. In general, from what I have read, I infer that Dunlavey is a bit of an outsider eccentric among audio engineers (which is saying a lot, they're a wacky bunch in general! ), so it isn't surprising he'd have "interesting" views on cables. They're still cables. Non-believers will tell you that the fancy aftermarket cables for Senns also make no difference.

Not to shut down discussion, but just to prevent unnecessary arguments on the topic, it should be noted that this is a "DBT-Free forum", which basically means that there is a general assumption that people can hear differences in cables and that people are discouraged from attacking reviewers of fancy new cables by calling them "idiots" or "ignorant" or whatever for "wasting" their $$ on cables that obviously (to them) do nothing. I don't think it doesn't mean we can't have a friendly discussion on the matter, but in general, debate about whether cables make a difference or not is discouraged here, primarily because people who don't believe in cables have initiated a bunch of flame-wars in the past on the subject. These things tend to devolve into: "oh yeah, well you're an ignorant fool with more money than brains" vs. "oh yeah, well you're a cheap-skate dolt who has never tried fancy cables and obviously has no idea what you're talking about!"

I think the cable arguement comes down to three basic questions.

Question 1:

Do cables actually make a difference?

While I am no expert, I have seen enough evidence to believe it is true. I definitely think the Cardas Senn cables sound better than the stock.

Question 2:

Can you here the difference?

I believe this is the source of most of the arguements involving cables. First of all, an audio system is like a chain, it is only as strong as its weekest link. If you have a crappy cd player, the sound is going to suck and there is nothing any cable can do about that. The second issue, and the one that is more difficult for people to accept is that we all hear differently. My wife cannot tell the difference when I switch on and off a crossfeed switch, where to me the difference is like night and day. If you are of the group that does not hear a difference, good for you, you can save some cash by not having to buy expensive cables. And for those who do hear the difference, enjoy the benefits and thrills of cable swapping without saying people who hear differently are wrong.

Question 3:

Is it worth the price?
This can only be answered by the individual. If you hear a difference, and that amount of money would not serve you better in a different part of the system, go for it. If you hear absolutely no difference, this probably isn't a forum that will change your mind

Cheers,
Silby

don't worry mark.... he's speaking what he believes in... i don't think what he says reflects his own business plans. even if you have doubts... the guy makes excellent points. it's not like he's pulling his stuff out from his ass.

and the guy is VERY well respected. as i said, his products used to be in almost every major mastering house. not anymore cause they went under though. but i have no idea why. he obviously sold more than most audiophile companies still in business. maybe cause he actually charged fair amounts for his stuff?

if i ever need home-style speakers, i'm gonna buy Dunlavy's from audiogon. they are the best. have never heard of high-end speakers more popular... well, maybe besides B&W.

Don't rag on Ars. I'm a long time member as well and there's going to be people who don't believe in cables or their system can be any better.

I'd tell anyone who doesn't belive in cables to go out and get a pair of Nordost Vahalla interconnect (or other highly regarded cable) and an equally highly regarded powercable. They would be a fool not to hear a difference. The point here is whether it makes a difference and I used the Nordost example because Vahallas make such a noticeable difference (good or bad you choose) that you can't mistake it.

i guess it doesn't matter to you, howie, that nordost advertises "propagation speeds" whatever that means.... measured in terms of percentage of speed of light. now that's just bull. any physics 2 student can tell you that.

so, the question is, how can you believe that a cable from such a company is any better than anyone else's when the manufacturer doesn't advertise the whole truth?--when the foundation of their "technology" is based basically on voodoo?

as a consumer, we know that one product is better than another when the manufacturer can provide measurements that show their product is better, and can discuss in scientific terms (as opposed to subjective terms) the merits of their product.

since nordost must rely on big words and grey truth to impress customers, you really cannot trust their product to function correctly.

well, you say it sounds better. i say i will not hear a difference. who's right?--exactly. no way to prove anything that way. that's why measurements and technology are important to advertising. and that's why Nordost is a rip-ff.