Sennheiser HD 800 VS Grado PS 1000 - Page 7

all of this headphones(ps-1000, and hd-800) need a good amplification and an excellent matching.

otherwise the result is poor.

lcd-2, in my opinion, need a lot of current.

well...

i express myself in a better way:is difficult to find the right combination with these headphones because they are not neutral and balanced

 

You sure about that?

 

 

 

 

I've heard the PS1000 on several occasions (and on some very good gear) and it was always brighter with more strident treble than the HD800s. The Headroom graphs confirm my personal experiences too. The PS1000s are relatively easy to drive, but the HD800s are VERY revealing of your upstream gear. YMMV.

 

 

 

Edited by MacedonianHero - 9/6/11 at 6:35pm

If you don't see any cons to the sound of the SR60i other than comfort, then I'm not sure you need to spend so much on headphones.  I'm sure people can recommend a more comfortable headphone with similar sound to the SR60. 

 

I think the AD2000 should be very much to your liking.  Similar sound, but much more refined, open, spacious, and very comfy.  Bam.  Get'm and go home happy. 

 

I'll elaborate here. 

 

Similarities between SR60 and ath-AD2000 "air"

quick sounding bass with good impact, transitions nicely from mids down to the upper bass and is pretty flat until it starts to roll off a bit.

neither headphone has outstanding bass extension 

gorgeous midrange that has natural warmth when called for but is not overly rich or lush

upper midrange and treble that is elevated to give a pronounced sense of detail and air

 

Differences between SR60 and ath-AD2000 "air"

AD2000 has a much bigger soundstage, maybe 5x bigger or something

AD2000 has much better imaging and separation

AD2000's elevation in the upper mids and treble is less extreme, so they are less fatiguing and harsh and sound more even and balanced.  The AD's upper mid/treble emphasis is rather subtle, but still achieves the same or similar effect as the Grados

AD2000 is more resolving and more refined, with better tone, subtlties, texture, etc. 

 

Edited by rhythmdevils - 9/6/11 at 6:55pm

The PS1000 don't need an amp for sufficient listening levels, and we all know that. To put a flagship headphone into a system that doesn't have an amp whose performance is appropriate for a flagship headphone is always a mistake. I'm going to assume that there wasn't an implication that the PS1000 aren't very revealing of upstream gear based on 32 ohm impedence. The HD800 measures very well and has a lot of technology behind it and will of course require the best gear to achieve the best performance. The last statement holds for the PS1000 as well. Every change to my system from source to interconnect to power cable to vibration isolation/damping has been revealed by the PS1000.

 

Nearly every headphone's frequency response will be influenced by fit. I found that I preferred to bend the headband of the PS1000 so that I get a tight clamp. The pads have some good spring to them and this fit puts the drivers a bit closer. This also makes a good seal with the pads which also impacts the sound. This tight fit decreases the extremes and brings out the midrange a bit compared to a loose fit which accentuates the top end and pushes the midrange back. It's hard to say what kind of fit was in place for the measurements or during brief meet auditions, but I wouldn't argue against a Grado being brighter than a Sennheiser. That's always been the case, and I'd trust it to be true between these two flagships. Anyway, I've read a good number comments about the HD800 being bright, and even needing a cable replacement to fix it, but maybe those are from people coming from the HD600/650.

 

As far as the HD800 vs PS1000 frequency response measurements go, I don't know what to believe. GoldenEars.net measurements below tell a different story than those from Headroom. Maybe someday Tyll will add PS1000 measurements to the data collection on InnerFidelity so we have another perspective.

 

 

 

 

Jerseyboy, best first four posts on head-fi ever.  I can only imagine how much gear and comparisons you'll be able to give us 100 posts in...

 

"Having every in production headphone and amp, I am currently awaiting the arrival of every discontinued out-of-production headphone and amp.  A definitive answer to "best ever" question coming shortly..."

 

Certainly not based on 32 ohm impedance...simply based on what I heard with different great and not so great amps/sources with the PS1000s. I always seemed to manage to hear exactly what John Grado wanted me to hear. FWIW, the HD800 and K701 (except for the sense of expansive sound stage) don't really sound the same to me. I find they (HD800s) are more in-line with the HD600s in terms of tonal balance.

 

Here's Tyll's HD800 measurements, and they do match up quite well to the Headroom graphs:

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800.pdf

 

I found the PS1000s, less bright than the GS1000s, but still bright overall (and brighter than my HD800s and T1s).

 

Quote:

 

Nice post. Personally, the PS1000 gives me zero treble spikes. The HD 800 a bit. (My amplification is all solid state: m902, BCL, A1, and DAC1).

true

 

the hd800 is the clear winner on paper if you consider hi-fi as being true to the source. however, given the right amp i find the ps1000 much more enjoyable. i think a lot of the negative comments about the ps1000 stem from not having the right amp. the problem is the amp i found that works with them wonderfully is no longer produced. never saw one for sale either. it is the cullen gcha. i suppose you could get the new chinese inexpensive gcha and diy the mod or there is another place that does it. it is not the same as the cullen mod though and may render completely different results. i can't say since i have not heard that one. the stock gcha was not so good. i used a lot of different amps with it and those particular headphones like it better than some beasts such as the p1u and hp4. so, to most people i could not recommend the ps1000 since they may have a very hard time procuring an appropriate amp. if one can get an amp that works they will know it when they do. i have scd1>da924>gcha all with crystal cable on a suspension platform and it competes with the o2 and he90. they are different but certainly in the same league. now, please don't bash me because you all have not heard my system and besides we all hear differently at that. the best thing about the whole rig is very low volume listening. i'd go so far as to say it is sublime at very low spl. btw, i feel the soundstage and placement is exactly what it should be. close to the source. no hyped treble,no midbass hump. goes very low. my ps1000 also have my own cable on them which costs several times what the headphones do. if anything i feel it made the bass go lower and tighter. now of course we are not talking about $1,700 headphones but a $30,000 dedicated rig. i don't feel that is a waste because i immensely enjoy them. i mentioned the shock platform. the gcha and scd1 especially need very good isolation and the gcha needs a power cord six times it's price too. this may seem absurd but in the end it worked great for me. you could put the hd800 on the hp4 and some nice stuff upstream and get darn good results for a lot less money too. still, i'd look at other headphones and not buy anything without hearing it. if i heard a ps1000 hooked up to any given $1,000 amp(that did not compliment them) i'd say they suck. which is why i think they have garnered such bashing around here. the hd800 is hard to drive but there are many amps to choose from that will do the job. all at much lower cost if one chooses. of course you will get a different sound than i feel i have but it should be very good nonetheless. for the record i do have the hd800 but i have not used them in months. i do not think i ever a/b'd my ps1k rig against the hd800 though. i think i know them well enough to support my post however.

My friend bought once the Sony MDR-R10 BH to compliment his electrostatic collection. He bought the HP-4 and the Earmax Anniversary at the same time to have the "right" amp for them. Shortly after he sold both because they were inferior to the Accuphase C-2800 headphone out that he had owned. I know the quality of this headphone out from both this device and the C-3800. They are better than most headphone amps discussed here but unpopular most probably due to price and their primary function which is preamplifier. However, these are devices at the level where comparing headphones starts making sense. You can plug 600 ohm T1, 62 ohm Q701 or 32 ohm PS1000 to it and they will be all equally well served. I have impression that in this forum most of the time win headphones working well with tubes and the PS1000 is not the case. You can like what you hear but they don't show their full potential and the bass goes crazy or partly absent. I don't recommend this headphone from any other point of view than sound. There was many driver failures which I suppose was caused by overloading headphones with little mileage. They need thorough burn-in starting with low volumes to become more current-resistant and sounding good. Their construction leaves much to desire - unstable on the head (only the K1000 is worse here), heavy, the rods sometimes don't keep fixed positions due to no lock, and transducers falling off the headband sometimes, literally. This is why my friend bought the Edition 10 and is happy, conforming the same rules to obtain good sound that refer to the PS1000.

Edited by majkel - 9/7/11 at 3:31am

i have used my ps-1000 with the beta-22(no tubes).

i like the ps-1000 but in my opinion this grado have a serious problem with the low frequencies when the pot rises.

for the rest is like a hot woman