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Woo Audio 3 vs Schiit Lyr/Valhalla - Page 2

post #16 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrHouse View Post





Thanks, this is all very helpful. Can the Lyr not tube roll to the same extent?



The Lyr tube rolling thread begs to differ.

 

To address the OP, do you intend to purchase orthos down the track? If so, the Lyr is a no-brainer, especially for the price. If you're looking to just find the best synergy for the HD650 in a tube setup on a tighter budget, I'm sure there are cheaper options that also yield great results.


Edited by olor1n - 8/29/11 at 7:04am
post #17 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post





The Lyr tube rolling thread begs to differ.

 

To address the OP, do you intend to purchase orthos down the track? If so, the Lyr is a no-brainer, especially for the price. If you're looking to just find the best synergy for the HD650 in a tube setup on a tighter budget, I'm sure there are cheaper options that also yield great results.

From what I can see the Lyr only uses a single pair of power/driver tubes. The WA3 uses a rectifier in addition to power/drivers, so it'll inherently have more rolling combinations.

 

I feel there's a lot of FOTM going on with Schiit's amps. The Valhalla and Lyr are hybrid amps, trying to snare people interested in tubes with "oh look, we have those!" They may be fairly cheap, but they're not the real deal.


Edited by grmnasasin0227 - 8/29/11 at 9:35am
post #18 of 60
Thread Starter 

I reckon as long as I can find the right combo of tubes, the WA3 makes better sense. 

Could I also throw something by Little Dot into the equation?

post #19 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by grmnasasin0227 View Post



From what I can see the Lyr only uses a single pair of power/driver tubes. The WA3 uses a rectifier in addition to power/drivers, so it'll inherently have more rolling combinations.

I feel there's a lot of FOTM going on with Schiit's amps. The Valhalla and Lyr are hybrid amps, trying to snare people interested in tubes with "oh look, we have those!" They may be fairly cheap, but they're not the real deal.


Is any of your "advice" in this thread based on first hand experience, or are you merely speculating?

Also, there are more than a handful of tubes that can be rolled into the Lyr. Amongst the myriad of 6dj8/6922/6bz7/6n23p tubes produced by a number of factories, from the 50's to today, I'm certain the right sound to match the OP's preference can be found.

Care to elaborate on what disqualifies the Lyr from being the "real deal"?
post #20 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrHouse View Post

I reckon as long as I can find the right combo of tubes, the WA3 makes better sense. 

Could I also throw something by Little Dot into the equation?

LD amps are in the same ballpark as Schiit. Decent when on a budget but not much more.
 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post



Is any of your "advice" in this thread based on first hand experience, or are you merely speculating?

Also, there are more than a handful of tubes that can be rolled into the Lyr. Amongst the myriad of 6dj8/6922/6bz7/6n23p tubes produced by a number of factories, from the 50's to today, I'm certain the right sound to match the OP's preference can be found.

Care to elaborate on what disqualifies the Lyr from being the "real deal"?

Is that just the generic question that gets tossed around here when you don't agree with someone? That's rude...

 

I'm not saying that there aren't choices to roll into the Lyr, but you can roll 9 different formats of power/drivers paired with 9 different formats of rectifiers, made by just as many factories, in as much time in history. I'm not calling the Lyr's options small. I'm calling the Woo's options larger.

 

The Lyr is a hybrid amp. In addition to mixing tubes with PCB which isn't a particularly good idea in my opinion, the tubes do not run to their full capacity because of the SS mechanisms also at work. Essentially, the tubes are a sort of tease. If you want a tube amp, get it done right and have your hundreds of volts going through it.


Edited by grmnasasin0227 - 8/29/11 at 1:53pm
post #21 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by grmnasasin0227 View Post



LD amps are in the same ballpark as Schiit. Decent when on a budget but not much more.
 

 



Is that just the generic question that gets tossed around here when you don't agree with someone? That's rude...

 

I'm not saying that there aren't choices to roll into the Lyr, but you can roll 9 different formats of power/drivers paired with 9 different formats of rectifiers, made by just as many factories, in as much time in history. I'm not calling the Lyr's options small. I'm calling the Woo's options larger.

 

The Lyr is a hybrid amp. In addition to mixing tubes with PCB which isn't a particularly good idea in my opinion, the tubes do not run to their full capacity because of the SS mechanisms also at work. Essentially, the tubes are a sort of tease. If you want a tube amp, get it done right and have your hundreds of volts going through it.


No, differing views are what drives these forums. However, a lot of people come here for informed advice. For some headfi gear is a considerable investment irrespective of price. I don't think it's a disservice to ensure the OP knows where that advice is coming from. Again, have you had any first hand experience with any of the components you've written off?

 

I'm not saying the Lyr is the be all, and I've stated in my previous post that there may be cheaper and more viable options for the OP if merely focusing on the one headphone. But I have the HD650, the Lyr and a handful of tubes that distinctly impact the overall presentation. The Lyr may appear as FotM to someone who hasn't heard it, but in my opinion it's greatly underrated around these parts. I suspect its "budget" price has a lot to do with it, as well as the fact the Lyr initially shipped with tubes that did not distinguish it at all (you can now choose which tubes to go with when ordering).

 

If you've read any of the threads about the Lyr and about the demands of orthos, you may note a slight resurgence of esteem for this amp. People have now rolled through quite a selection of tubes and have identified the ones that have great synergy in their rigs, according to their preferences. FotM is when all you have are members who've clearly not heard anything else sing the praises of a component that other more experienced members are notably silent about. The Lyr is slowing emerging from that. There has always been a handful of members, ones that have heard, owned or still own great systems (generally after some expense) that have endorsed the Lyr from day one. What's telling though are the ones coming out of the woodwork, after hearing the Lyr in tuned rigs at meets, or after pulling the trigger and finding out for themselves.

 


Edited by olor1n - 8/29/11 at 6:01pm
post #22 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post




No, differing views are what drives these forums. However, a lot of people come here for informed advice. For some headfi gear is a considerable investment irrespective of price. I don't think it's a disservice to ensure the OP knows where that advice is coming from. Again, have you had any first hand experience with any of the components you've written off?

 

I'm not saying the Lyr is the be all, and I've stated in my previous post that there may be cheaper and more viable options for the OP if merely focusing on the one headphone. But I have the HD650, the Lyr and a handful of tubes that distinctly impact the overall presentation. The Lyr may appear as FotM to someone who hasn't heard it, but in my opinion it's greatly underrated around these parts. I suspect its "budget" price has a lot to do with it, as well as the fact the Lyr initially shipped with tubes that did not distinguish it at all (you can now choose which tubes to go with when ordering).

 

If you've read any of the threads about the Lyr and about the demands of orthos, you may note a slight resurgence of esteem for this amp. People have now rolled through quite a selection of tubes and have identified the ones that have great synergy in their rigs, according to their preferences. FotM is when all you have are members who've clearly not heard anything else sing the praises of a component that other more experienced members are notably silent about. The Lyr is slowing emerging from that. There has always been a handful of members, ones that have heard, owned or still own great systems (generally after some expense) that have endorsed the Lyr from day one. What's telling though are the ones coming out of the woodwork, after hearing the Lyr in tuned rigs at meets, or after pulling the trigger and finding out for themselves.

 

Fair enough. I have not heard the Lyr personally, but I am fairly well versed in how hybrid amps operate (I'm an EE student). My statements stand, because I never commented on how it sounds.

 

I would argue that FOTM is when EVERYONE is raving about something, and that it's especially important when the gear is lower priced. I don't think senior members standing by has anything to do with it. A flavor is a flavor, and if it's popular, that means the majority of the population enjoys it.

post #23 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by grmnasasin0227 View Post



Fair enough. I have not heard the Lyr personally, but I am fairly well versed in how hybrid amps operate (I'm an EE student). My statements stand, because I never commented on how it sounds.

 

I would argue that FOTM is when EVERYONE is raving about something, and that it's especially important when the gear is lower priced. I don't think senior members standing by has anything to do with it. A flavor is a flavor, and if it's popular, that means the majority of the population enjoys it.

 

You're missing the point that contrast against similar gear, and the realisation the Lyr holds its own, is what lifts it from FotM. You seem at ease with discounting the first hand experience of others, so I'll leave you to it. Don't be surprised though if others call you out on it.
 

 

post #24 of 60

Oh and regurgitating the views of others undermines your supposed qualifications. Here's Uncle Erik's balanced post in another thread. Notice the disclaimers?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post

I'm not crazy about the Little Dot power supplies or PCB construction.

Though I'd consider a Schiit solid state amp. I'm not sure about their hybrid. I'm funny about tubes. Either you go all-out for a properly built point-to-point entirely tubed amp or you buy a quality class A solid state amp. (Yes, solid state can sound great.)

I will admit that I might be off the mark here and some hybrids might be good. My hangup is that most hybrids are on PCBs, which I don't like for tubes. Tubes run hot and shouldn't be on something that can scorch and lift traces. They should be on ceramic or Teflon sockets connected with wires that can be replaced. My other hangup is that some hybrids run tubes at the same voltage as the chips, like 12-16V, when the tube is designed to run at over 200V. Those sometimes just have the tubes there to add a little tube flavor and claim that it has tubes. I think tubes should be run as designed, not as decoration.

Of course, I could be wrong. If someone disagrees, please post and explain.

My position is that you either use tubes and really do them right or go solid state and really do it right. The difference is that it costs a lot less to really do solid state right. The difference is that it's a lot cheaper to get a great solid state amp. If you want a budget amp, then do solid state well. You'll get much better sound than a compromised tube amp. Hybrids might be an exception, but I need to learn more to be confident about that.

 

beerchug.gif

post #25 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by grmnasasin0227 View Post



From what I can see the Lyr only uses a single pair of power/driver tubes. The WA3 uses a rectifier in addition to power/drivers, so it'll inherently have more rolling combinations.

 

I feel there's a lot of FOTM going on with Schiit's amps. The Valhalla and Lyr are hybrid amps, trying to snare people interested in tubes with "oh look, we have those!" They may be fairly cheap, but they're not the real deal.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grmnasasin0227 View Post



Fair enough. I have not heard the Lyr personally, but I am fairly well versed in how hybrid amps operate (I'm an EE student). My statements stand, because I never commented on how it sounds.

 

I would argue that FOTM is when EVERYONE is raving about something, and that it's especially important when the gear is lower priced. I don't think senior members standing by has anything to do with it. A flavor is a flavor, and if it's popular, that means the majority of the population enjoys it.


That's a pretty big statement from someone who has not even heard the amp, oh btw I am fairly well versed in pretty much everything (I'm a philosophy student).

 

post #26 of 60

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by grmnasasin0227 View Post

From what I can see the Lyr only uses a single pair of power/driver tubes. The WA3 uses a rectifier in addition to power/drivers, so it'll inherently have more rolling combinations.

 

 

Rectifiers are specialty tubes used to convert ac to dc.  The Woo 2, 6, 6SE, 22, and 5 all use one or more retifier(s), but the WA 3 does not.  Rather, the WA 3 runs two 6dj8's input driver tubes and a 6as7 power tube.  

 

This thread has a bit too much of the well-intentioned blind leading the blind...  

 

I haven't had a chance to hear the schiit amps, but I've spent hundreds of hours listening to my WA 3 and also my Crack.  Both are great OTL headphone amps, but to my ears, the Crack (even before the mods or speedball upgrade) is the better of the two.  It is more detailed, dynamic and immersive with all three pairs of my high impedance cans (HD800's, 650's and DT880's).      

post #27 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by olor1n View Post

Oh and regurgitating the views of others undermines your supposed qualifications. Here's Uncle Erik's balanced post in another thread. Notice the disclaimers?

 

 

 

beerchug.gif

I'm not really regurgitating, just agreeing with them. Is that a problem?

post #28 of 60
Thread Starter 

And how about a Darkvoice amp? expensive, but i hear it is good with the HD650

post #29 of 60

Just happened upon this thread, discussing a Crack build and comparing it to a Valhalla (see post 4).  Figured I'd share the link: http://www.bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,2073.0.html

post #30 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrHouse View Post

And how about a Darkvoice amp? expensive, but i hear it is good with the HD650

I've heard Darkvoice is decent. You're right, it's in a higher price bracket than the WA3/Lyr. I don't particularly know how it stacks up with those offerings though, never seen a direct comparison.

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