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Biocellulose and Its Use In Headphones-Earphones (referring the recent iem example: Vsonic GR-07... - Page 2

post #16 of 31

Thanks for the answer.

 

" But yes I think that the driver will be damaged anyway, the real question is : are these damages going to cause any audible changes? I doubt that, too…"

 

It sounds interesting.


Anyway, here pictures of the raw organic bio cellulose just before it became a driver  and after dehydration and pressing (official picture from SONY JP) :

 

Capture d‚ÄôeŐĀcran 2012-05-23 aŐÄ 00.56.25.png

 

Sony needed two days to make the bio cellulose material (in blue). So it seems to not be so difficult to make this material, maybe the second step is harder. In 1989, it was crazy to make wood parts like the R10, but now, we have 3D scanner and 3D printer can remake easely parts like that in wood !

 

The question is : the R10 seems to be the best headphone ever made, why isn't there a crazy rich guy trying to make another headphone like that ? It could be a huge great business to make something like that t Remake the R10. It could be a great impossible project !  I am not rich, but I am crazy, Who want to make it with me ? o2smile.gif

 

 

 


Edited by Modwright01 - 5/22/12 at 4:08pm
post #17 of 31

No, the R10 is not the greatest headphone ever made.  What other headphones do you have or have used?  Not to mention there's two different tunings of the R10 so I don't know how anything w/ two different sounds could be the best ever sound.  Which one?

 

A 3d scanner is not going to cut the acoustic ridges.  The problem was using the old growth Zelkova wood from Siberia, no the lack of a 3D scanner.  A scanner would only return the same CAD file they already have that was used to make the R10 in the first place.  You don't seem to know what you are talking about.

 

The history of bio-cellulose has been far less durable than other typical driver materials.  Just ask most owners who actually use their headphones regularly.  Then try to source replacement driver from Sony.  GL.

 

Sony has two years of equity left before they go bankrupt, I don't think it would be wise for them to follow your business model.

post #18 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modwright01 View Post

 

 

Sony needed two days to make the bio cellulose material (in blue). So it seems to not be so difficult to make this material, maybe the second step is harder. In 1989, it was crazy to make wood parts like the R10, but now, we have 3D scanner and 3D printer can remake easely parts like that in wood !

 

The question is : the R10 seems to be the best headphone ever made, why isn't there a crazy rich guy trying to make another headphone like that ? It could be a huge great business to make something like that t Remake the R10. It could be a great impossible project !  I am not rich, but I am crazy, Who want to make it with me ? o2smile.gif

 

 

 

Bacteries needed to days to make the drivers, but sony needed years to master the whole process.. and remember the blue material is 2mm thick, the driver's diaphragm is 2 microns thick.

 

For precision wood carving, you need a cnc router.. 

 

 

@anaxilus, I didn't know that sony imported zelkova serrata from siberia, there's a lot of them in japan..

post #19 of 31

Something I read somewhere about the R10.  Wouldn't surprise me if the USSR was cheaper than dealing w/ Japanese regulations and costs.  Doesn't matter really.  It's interesting that Foster mentions the OEM design used for the D7000 as having been available w/ Zelkova and biocellulose.

post #20 of 31

Siberia sounds more exotic, a meteor fell there, etc.

post #21 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

Siberia sounds more exotic, a meteor fell there, etc.

 

Yup, the Zelkova comes pre-burned in.  tongue.gif

post #22 of 31

Is someone trying to contact the AIST (advanced institute of science and technology) in japan ? http://www.aist.go.jp/index_en.html

 

They produced the R10 drivers and they probably have the possibility to make drivers again ?

 

I wrote an e-mail to the AIST without any answer...

 

I think if ALL the R10 users make a serious website and said that they want buy drivers, it will maybe possible to produce this part again, if we can be 1000 users it could be interesting.

 

Anyway, I still thinking that technology today are totally different than in 89, and reproduce the R10, exactly the same, could be possible with the right team.

 

Thanks.


Edited by Modwright01 - 5/26/12 at 7:01am
post #23 of 31

You're going to have a hard time trying to find 1000 users willing to drop money to change their drivers... Remember that Sony produced 2500 of them and they DIDN'T make money, trying to produce only 2000 drivers is going to be extremely expensive.

 

However I admire your dedication, I hope that your initiative will be crowned with success and I'd be glad to help if you want me to.

post #24 of 31

Thanks for the answers.

 

My position is this one :

 

I am a fan of music, I ear lot of good hifi systems, and lot of good headphones BUT I think personally that the R10 has something VERY special and can translate the very soul of the music. All the music lovers should be listen on time in life.

 

I think we are in a time of high technology, totally different than 1989, and I think too much people, passioned by music and high end sound didn't know the amazing sound of the R10. Ok, it is maybe not the best headphone all of time (best is a very relative word) but, probably the most surprising headphone, the most special.

 

So, what can we do ? Just be very lucky owners and keep the pleasure for us, or maybe try to share and reproduce again this diamond  ?

 

I am not thinking to be the right person to do that alone, but I have the idea, like probably other people here, I think lot of people want that. So I am in Paris, and open to meet people want to try to make a dream real.

 

All I can say is : when I share my R10 with music lovers, all people said for joking : "ok, thanks for the gift, right now I'm gonna keep this headphone for ever". A friend of mine doesn't want to listen the R10 because he is afraid to listen the sound and be frustrating for the rest of his life :D

 

So, that's my feeling about the R10...Maybe I am crazy, maybe I am in a total dream...But I would like to try something.

 

Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.


Edited by Modwright01 - 5/27/12 at 4:02pm
post #25 of 31

I'd very happy to meet up with you after I get my rig to listen and compare..
 

have you ever listened to the stax O2? Your impressions of your r10 seem to mirror the ones I got when I heard them the first time : "damn, they doesn't like any other headphones". Even though I didn't like them they were quite remarkable in that regard..


Edited by customcoco - 5/26/12 at 6:40am
post #26 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modwright01 View Post


All I can say is : when I share my R10 with music lovers, all people said for joking : "ok, thanks for the gift, right now I'm gonna keep this headphone for ever". A friend of mine doesn't want to listen the R10 because he is afraid to listen the sound and be frustrating for the rest of his life :D

 

 

Stupid question : have your friends ever listened to high end headphones prior to the r10?

post #27 of 31

Here the answers :

 

1) I never listen the O2 from Stax. I listened another stax headphone (don't remember the name...sorry) , and they were good but, I still prefer the R10 (again it is purely personal). Generally, I don't like the totally "opened" design of headphones. The reason is : everybody can ear what are you listening and you can ear what's happening outside. Ok, with the R10, people can ear too what are you listening and you can ear what is happening outside (depending, not if there is not silence in the music) , but never like an opened design headphones. Of course, lot of people will probably think that it is totally stupid, but I think is simply personal. (Why at certain level of quality, 80% of high end headphones are opened and not closed ? Probably because this is easier to build high end headphones with opened design and cost less, Am I wrong ?)


2) Some of my friend had music collectors and tried lot of headphones, but it will be never headphone cost more than around 1000 $ (I know one of my friend know the HD800 for exemple, other know grado headphones...). But, the same people know very well good hifi system (B&W, Nad, KEF, Tubes amp...etc).

 

 

Let's make a meeting to compare headphones. i am pretty sure, You and I, will be surprised by the results anyway.


Edited by Modwright01 - 5/27/12 at 5:43pm
post #28 of 31

I really need to hear the R10 now, I will have my fountain pen ready lol.

post #29 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

I really need to hear the R10 now, I will have my fountain pen ready lol.

 

Try to find something here to share with you the R10 !

 

I would like to read your fountain pen soon, but all I can say is, all the people say the same things about the R10 usually, "amazing soundstage" "very natural sound" "amazing details" " like no other"...And I think it is just a good sign, like everybody said David sculpture is a masterpiece with the same words. wink.gif

post #30 of 31

I think this was a very good overview. To follow up, here is the biocellulose, but bio as from wood in a new membrane for speakers:

 

http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/2013/10/sustainable-cellulose-magnetic-nanoparticles-loudspeaker

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