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Hifiman RE272: Review - Page 14

post #196 of 272

great post/review.

 

these are great iems and people should definitely cjeck em out
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralStorm View Post

Well, I bit the bullet and grabbed RE272.

 

RE272's highs are fantastic. They make short work of Westone 4 and Ety 4P. Apart from the dry sounding 4kHz boost and some slight 6-9k dip, the highs are strong and even.

Extension is not measurable by my ear... beyond 19.5kHz.

Mids are well detailed, with some 2kHz boost adding extra "power" but definitely subtracting from finesse. Quite the inverse of GR07, which have 2kHz dip.

Bass with the right tips is quite on par with GR07 in quality, if not better. Subbass could be more, but with the right fit these are actually just as extended as GR07 with only a hair less energy in the lowest subbass. There's close to zero bass boost on these - perhaps a slight tinge of warmth added, as opposed to quite a bit of extra midbass on GR07.

 

While GR07 is mid bass-boosted and has 8k boost, but could use more extension, RE272 has slightly leaner subbass (but still great - the original tips are bad though!)

and some 4k boost. All in all, RE272 are more neutral and have that dry presentation, mostly due to the 4kHz boost. Kind of reminds me of experiments with eq before I found the actual flat sound - of overcorrected GR07. All the humps are within 6 dB of my perfect flat sound, which is a better result than GR07 (with its large high bass/low mids boost and a 9k hole)

 

RE272 sound kind of "electric" aggressive as opposed to "metal" (music and material) aggressive of GR07. Detailing is also different, fairly aggressive, rather on par with BA IEMs as opposed to dynamics. Especially the lower mids are presented with the exact detailing I like.

 

As for fit, these are quite impossible in the 2 standard position as my ear canal arcs up and these seem to have been set for downward arc. However, the reverse channel configuration is perfect, actually better than GR07.

Included tip kit is quite incompatible with my ears, only the medium single flange works decently and smaller biflange after some softening workout. Not that comfortable still.

However, to my suprise, GR07's silicone tips work extremely well with RE272 - good that I have them. I bet these tips are just *that* good for almost everything...

Medium (green core) Sony hybrid clones work decently too, but are ever so slightly inferior, boosting midbass unnecessarily and 13 kHz "sparkles" as well as providing a bit more fiddly fit.

 

Soundstage is wide and boundless. Works extremely well with crossfeed, otherwise it's in-head/line, similar to binaural-tuned headphones. Positioning precision is very high, though there are a few IEMs that give slightly better results here I suspect. Once you apply crossfeed, the sound seems correctly placed, quite forward,

 

The cable is very good, supple yet strong, however the silicone sheath will probably attract dust. Isolation is slightly worse than GR07's, but better than open-backed dynamics. Mostly leaks in high frequencies. I take some issue with the replaceable extension cord's socket part strain relief - it's hard and short, bad match for such a supple cable.

J-shaped anti-snag plug in the extension cables is a nice touch though.

Oh, and they look quite pretty. Their metal-looking (probably not though) casing has the same shape as RE252/262, but has a sheen and color like a silicon ingot - perhaps it's actually made of it too...

 

Packaging and accessories are almost laughable for such an expensive product.

These IEMs are quite sensitive, more so than GR07. They don't produce any important amounts of hiss though.

 

All in all, these sound kind of like certain studio monitors and I suppose would do pretty well as such given right tips. Definitely a candidate for custom tips.

They still can't beat GR07 for value due to the price tag and accessories, but other than that, definitely a keeper.

--

Preliminary equalization:

RE272.png

Equalization fixes the minor leanness of bass and general dry and slightly grainy feel of sound - it gets quite a bit more delicate and refined.

(The frequency response is better than within 6 dB of flat sounding to me, barring the Linkwitz transforms; Excellent result!)



 

post #197 of 272

@astralstorm....How do you apply crossfeed, do you use software or is it through an amp?

 

I am using Ts400 Comply tips, best I've heard on the RE272....amazing IEM after 300hrs they really open up!


Edited by cute - 1/16/12 at 4:43pm
post #198 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute View Post

@astralstorm....How do you apply crossfeed, do you use software or is it through an amp?

 

I am using Ts400 Comply tips, best I've heard on the RE272....amazing IEM after 300hrs they really open up!


Just wondering if you switched to the Comply because the stock bi-flanges didn't give you a good fit or do they sound much better than the stock?

 

I am currently using the smaller bi-flanges and I find them extremely comfortable and sound amazing (especially the bass) after burning in for about 200 hours.  Still I want to see if that could be improved even further with new tips.

 

post #199 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute View Post

@astralstorm....How do you apply crossfeed, do you use software or is it through an amp?

 

I am using Ts400 Comply tips, best I've heard on the RE272....amazing IEM after 300hrs they really open up!

 

The crossfeed is software now, Bauer Stereophonic to Binaural (BS2b); 1.0 dB, ~100 us/1780 Hz; order of the equalization doesn't really matter, but I prefer to keep the crossfeed after eq, as eq contains a huge volume dip which makes crossfeed clipping plain impossible. I'm considering to add a small reverb too, my experiments with tap_reverb proved to be fruitful - that makes the soundstage feel quite a bit more real.

 

Now I'm also using Ts400 with RE272, simply awesome. (Note: getting these tips required an overseas order - they're almost impossible to get!) I haven't yet derived the precise eq curve for those - it's similar to the Comply S400 one, but with less bass boost and steeper and higher frequency highs boost (far less high cut). Slightly moved the resonant "notch" lower as well I think, making it yet more pleasant.

Haven't noticed any real burn-in effect myself.

For reference, Comply S400 curve and the rest of the setup:

RE 272 Comply S400 Medium

 

 

The reason for improvement is likely due to the fit and lack of any extra reflections/resonances inside the ear canal.

In fact, foam absorbs resonances and reflections and Comply foam is better than most at it.

 

Comply S unfortunately are less efficient at it and the anti-earwax flute on them is also obscuring the nozzle slightly. Not to mention they are too large for my ears.

Ts400 are purely gold. RE272 have almost enough bass there to need no boost. I'd estimate 3-6 dB more at lowest end. Actually, it's only -1.5 dB at 70 Hz vs 500 Hz reference. (-18 dB at 20 Hz) Talk about a great fit improving bass!

The resonant peak at 4k is also moved lower and I think lesser in magnitude. (Edit: sounds only 1 dB quieter and some 100 Hz lower.)


Edited by AstralStorm - 1/21/12 at 1:50pm
post #200 of 272

Fcuk! i want them more:)

post #201 of 272

Here's the Ts400 curve for your viewing pleasure:

RE272-Comply-Ts400.png

 

The high notches were likely there too with S400, but I was unable to correct them without introducing artifacts.

Before the correction the sound is somewhat gong-like, slightly shouty. After the correction, the treble sounds even better - even more endless if there's such a thing. Reverberation on treble is far better, more real as opposed to a metal room.

Soundstage becomes far more coherent and limitless, as opposed to narrower "arced" soundstage without equalization. It's also quite a bit farther, but not lacking any intimacy. Removes the "interesting" magnification like feeling to it.

Of course bass gets the necessary bit of mising presence and precision.


Edited by AstralStorm - 1/22/12 at 5:33am
post #202 of 272

Hmm.... after a longer time with them, I say "burned in" (loosened) small T400 work better than (medium-only) Ts400 in my ears.

They cut less highs while providing the same bass quality, quantity and extension. The issue with losing seal only happens for the first day or so and also rarely.

 

I'll post the eq curve later today. (unnecessary, it's very close to Ts400 one)

 

Pity Comply doesn't make longer slightly tapering 5mm-compatible tips. (trapezoid cross-section = trimmed cone) Kind of like P-series, but with shorter "flute".

 


Edited by AstralStorm - 2/10/12 at 1:13pm
post #203 of 272

Since someone asked me for a reference in a PM, here's the latest curve, for Comply T400 Small.

RE272-Comply-T400-Small.png

 

As you can see, it's somewhat flatter than the Ts400 one, which means I should be using small tips.

The soundstage is exquisitely centered and placed at about 3rd row of an auditorium and the sound "feels" to be in front.


Edited by AstralStorm - 2/10/12 at 1:16pm
post #204 of 272

worn with large fake sony hybrids , behind the ear (with the reversed channels cable) , they sound really good



open , airy , spacious ,detailed.

 

 

i wonder why these havent been heard here as much as they deserve to.

post #205 of 272
Thread Starter 

It's a pity really. I thought even RE262 got less attention than it deserved when it came out.

 

And if I have to describe RE272 with 2StepDance, one word - effortless. I don't think I am going back to 'unbalanced'. Dynamics are better as is bass texture. When moving between iPod Video 5G->2SD back to QA350-> UHA6S, another obvious difference is the slight mid emphasis on the latter. The overall changes may not be huge, but they do make RE272 sound effortless - something I can finally appreciate without bothering about all the issues I had with it when I wrote the review.


Edited by esanthosh - 3/9/12 at 10:47am
post #206 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by esanthosh View Post

It's a pity really. I thought even RE262 got less attention than it deserved when it came out.

 

And if I have to describe RE272 with 2StepDance, one word - effortless. I don't think I am going back to 'unbalanced'. Dynamics are better as is bass texture. When moving between iPod Video 5G->2SD back to QA350-> UHA6S, another obvious difference is the slight mid emphasis on the latter. The overall changes may not be huge, but they do make RE272 sound effortless - something I can finally appreciate without bothering about all the issues I had with it when I wrote the review.

 

+1

@esanthosh,  What tips are you using?  Are you using EQ on the low end?

 

post #207 of 272
Thread Starter 

I am using the stock bi-flanges. With the 2SD, RE-272 in a psuedo-balanced mode, the bass quantity and texture are enough for me not to bother with EQ. Of course, it does not make RE272 a bass monster, but fills the low-end just enough that I am no longer distracted by it.

post #208 of 272

Nice write ups esanthosh, by any chance have you heard the Vsonic GR07's?  Interesting to see what you would think of them compared to the 272's as both seem to have an analytical, but balanced theme to them...  also double interested in what you think as it seems like your tastes are fairly similar to mine with all the headphones you've tried and enjoyed!

 

I got some ASG-1's coming my way but if they don't work out, I might check out one of the two to add to my collection.  Must admit I've always wanted to try Hifiman's in ears, as both the 262 and 272 have been regularly touted to have some of the best dynamic drivers in the biz.

post #209 of 272

If I could present my lowly peasant's idea of the comparison, as I own both, I would dare to do so :D. I just finished burning in my new-ish pair of the gr07s for ~225 hrs.I've had the 272s for ~6 months or so. The gr07s sound better than ever anticipated for the price (amazon for $179-ish, I think). Amazing clarity, VERY nice bass balance for those who like the neutral signature, yet want sub-bass, mid bass and all the other basses. Textures galore! Mids are very clear, very comparable to those on the 272s. Crystalline. However, the highs are where these lack and the 272s shine. The gr07s are a little on the edge, if not sibilant, even after the 200+ hrs of burn in and are not even close to the 272s in treble presentation (which is one of the best I've ever seen, including my UM Miracles). If you are not a treble head, the gr07s are nice. The bass is not overwhelming in quantity/quality, but is neither something to be ignored. Very smooth. Mids, like I said are very nice as well. On the other hand, the re-272s are one of the best in terms of treble presentation. I would make love to their treble, if I could. The mids are as good as the gr07s. The bass, on the other hand, is a different beast. It really depends where you're coming from, and what source you're using. If you want a thumping deep bass, this isn't the one for you. Unamped, it certainly does have good detail in bass; but with amping, everything "pops" a lot more.

 

TL;DR Opinion: Neutrality lovers: GR07; Treble lovers: RE-272.

 

EDIT: Clarified some redundancies.


Edited by varyV - 3/10/12 at 6:50am
post #210 of 272
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by munkyballz View Post

Nice write ups esanthosh, by any chance have you heard the Vsonic GR07's?  Interesting to see what you would think of them compared to the 272's as both seem to have an analytical, but balanced theme to them...  also double interested in what you think as it seems like your tastes are fairly similar to mine with all the headphones you've tried and enjoyed!

 

I got some ASG-1's coming my way but if they don't work out, I might check out one of the two to add to my collection.  Must admit I've always wanted to try Hifiman's in ears, as both the 262 and 272 have been regularly touted to have some of the best dynamic drivers in the biz.


I no longer have the GR07, so would hate to go from memory. Here's my review of them, FWIW.

 

I did not get enough time at the time of writing this review, so could only make brief comparison to GR07 which you can find in the first post.

 

I'd in general, agree with varyV. When I think of GR07, I remember it for it's comfortable fit and bass. It was the right mix of quantity, texture, extension for me. But what bothered me was that bump that brought up sibilance even after 250 hours of burn-in. Of course, with some tip rolling and EQ, it should be taken care of, which was possible with Clip+. But once I switched to the very limited QA350 as my source (and later on as transport to UHA-6S), it was no longer possible.

 

I prefer RE272 overall compared to GR07 - even when run in the normal, unbalanced mode. With the active balanced ground of 2SD, RE272 pulls ahead some more, fixing some of it's annoyances (at least to me) and improving in some areas. As with well performing universals, the so-called "top-tier", marginal improvements are enough to make an IEM more fascinating - to move it from 'very good, but with caveats' to 'very satisfying'. Without the 2SD, I'd say the difference between them is marginal overall, so it comes down to your signature preference.

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