New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Hifiman RE272: Review - Page 13

post #181 of 272

Posted this in the RE262 review thread yesterday. I shall post it here for the other readers to read as well.

 

The RE262 is truly something special.

 

Just got my hands on the RE272, the magical mids of the RE262 are gone. Unfortunately I don't have my RE262 with me anymore so I can't do a direct comparison. Do take what I type here with a pinch of salt as these will be based on memory.

 

You will definitely get a trade-off when you upgrade the RE262 to the RE272 (depends if you consider price difference as an upgrade but headdirect does label RE272 as their flagship iem). You get better micro details with a much colder mids in the RE272 in exchange for the warmer and more forward mids in the RE262. But what this translate to is that the RE272 is less colored and as a result more neutral sounding than its cousin.

 

Highs are more prominent in the RE272 which is to be expected. You get the sense of air that other people have been talking about with this iem, which wasn't prominent in the RE262. Instrument separation is also better on the RE272. As a result, tracks that once sounded congested on the RE262 is now better handled in the RE272.

 

I can't comment much on the bass, but it seems that the RE262 has slightly more impact.

 

FWIW, I think both are quite different sounding iems and it is really down to your preference if you ever want to own one. Do remember that you may need an amp for the RE262. If I had to get one, my money would be on the RE262 due to its magical mids, although you will be severly limited to songs which aren't too complex sounding, meaning genres such as techno, metal, rock music are possibly a no go for the RE262. Listen to acoustic, female tracks such as Adele, Ingrid Michaelson and you will be rewarded with aural pleasure.

 

 

Edit: I shall now add on a little to my earlier post.

 

My RE272 has now been burned in for slightly over 30 hours since I got them. I've decided to have another go at the RE272.

 

Tracks are all in FLAC or WAV format.

Source is HM-602 on high gain, EQ-ed.

 

LOVING the transparency and details of the RE272! Quite a breath of fresh air especially when coming from the RE262. Soundstage and imaging is pretty amazing for an IEM. I am actually very impressed although it can't be compared to a full-sized can. In fact, I think it is better than all the other IEMs I have owned so far. The closest IEM would be the Westone UM2.

 

The bass of the RE272 is where it gets disappointing. Even after EQing, the bass on the RE272 is nowhere near to my kind of preference. While I am not looking for Westone 3 bass, I would appreciate more bass to my music. For those who have heard the W3 before, I find its bass overpowering which only serves to muffle the music. For certain tracks the RE272 is more than adequate in providing the bass. However, very often I hear little to no sub-bass and very weak bass on the RE272.

 

FWIW, I do rate the RE272 better than the RE262 overall. My only wish in the RE282 (if that is what it is called) would be to bring back the mids of the RE262. I can live with a lack of bass because the mids IMO are usually what helps bring the music alive all over again. 


Edited by noluckboi - 11/17/11 at 10:53am
post #182 of 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by noluckboi View Post

Posted this in the RE262 review thread yesterday. I shall post it here for the other readers to read as well.

 

The RE262 is truly something special.

 

Just got my hands on the RE272, the magical mids of the RE262 are gone. Unfortunately I don't have my RE262 with me anymore so I can't do a direct comparison. Do take what I type here with a pinch of salt as these will be based on memory.

 

You will definitely get a trade-off when you upgrade the RE262 to the RE272 (depends if you consider price difference as an upgrade but headdirect does label RE272 as their flagship iem). You get better micro details with a much colder mids in the RE272 in exchange for the warmer and more forward mids in the RE262. But what this translate to is that the RE272 is less colored and as a result more neutral sounding than its cousin.

 

Highs are more prominent in the RE272 which is to be expected. You get the sense of air that other people have been talking about with this iem, which wasn't prominent in the RE262. Instrument separation is also better on the RE272. As a result, tracks that once sounded congested on the RE262 is now better handled in the RE272.

 

I can't comment much on the bass, but it seems that the RE262 has slightly more impact.

 

FWIW, I think both are quite different sounding iems and it is really down to your preference if you ever want to own one. Do remember that you may need an amp for the RE262. If I had to get one, my money would be on the RE262 due to its magical mids, although you will be severly limited to songs which aren't too complex sounding, meaning genres such as techno, metal, rock music are possibly a no go for the RE262. Listen to acoustic, female tracks such as Adele, Ingrid Michaelson and you will be rewarded with aural pleasure.

 

 

Edit: I shall now add on a little to my earlier post.

 

My RE272 has now been burned in for slightly over 30 hours since I got them. I've decided to have another go at the RE272.

 

Tracks are all in FLAC or WMA format.

Source is HM-602 on high gain, EQ-ed.

 

LOVING the transparency and details of the RE272! Quite a breath of fresh air especially when coming from the RE262. Soundstage and imaging is pretty amazing for an IEM. I am actually very impressed although it can't be compared to a full-sized can. In fact, I think it is better than all the other IEMs I have owned so far. The closest IEM would be the Westone UM2.

 

The bass of the RE272 is where it gets disappointing. Even after EQing, the bass on the RE272 is nowhere near to my kind of preference. While I am not looking for Westone 3 bass, I would appreciate more bass to my music. For those who have heard the W3 before, I find its bass overpowering which only serves to muffle the music. For certain tracks the RE272 is more than adequate in providing the bass. However, very often I hear little to no sub-bass and very weak bass on the RE272.

 

FWIW, I do rate the RE272 better than the RE262 overall. My only wish in the RE282 (if that is what it is called) would be to bring back the mids of the RE262. I can live with a lack of bass because the mids IMO are usually what helps bring the music alive all over again. 



I have found that with adequate burn in, Nanchai says over 200 hrs, these phones open up.  Mine have lost the dry sound....the bass has really improved.  I have both the RE262 and RE272, and IMO the bass on the RE272 is deeper, more extended, and more pronounced....after 200 hrs.  Doing an A/B with the RE262, the mids are fantastic now, smooth and sweet, vocals have more air around them.  Strings seem to "breathe".  The highs on the RE272 extend higher than the RE262 ever did.  I am really enjoying my RE272, I will be returning the RE262 to head-direct.

 

post #183 of 272

That's good to hear! I am still burning this IEM in and I hope the changes will come out as how you have mentioned them to be. I used the RE272 with my schiit lyr and hm602 as the source a while ago and it sounded wonderful. The bass became much more impactful and extended deeper too.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cute View Post



I have found that with adequate burn in, Nanchai says over 200 hrs, these phones open up.  Mine have lost the dry sound....the bass has really improved.  I have both the RE262 and RE272, and IMO the bass on the RE272 is deeper, more extended, and more pronounced....after 200 hrs.  Doing an A/B with the RE262, the mids are fantastic now, smooth and sweet, vocals have more air around them.  Strings seem to "breathe".  The highs on the RE272 extend higher than the RE262 ever did.  I am really enjoying my RE272, I will be returning the RE262 to head-direct.

 



 

post #184 of 272

@noluckboi: excellent post, with which I happen to agree with completely! Just how I hear the 262 and 272. smile.gif

post #185 of 272

Now the question remains - who would venture to make custom tips/sleeves for RE-272? I feel like even the well-fitting mushroom tiny tips aren't good enough.

The tips would have to be fitted for over the ear style with deep insertion. Myself, I don't have the necessary knowledge and practice to make them out of impressions.

The part where the nozzle is to be placed at the right angle seems especially brutal - as well as ensuring the nozzle is the full width all the way.

I can pay even quite extravagant prices for it. Of course, unless HifiMan makes a custom - there are so few (only Futuresonics?) custom dynamics out there...

 

@proedros:

About amplification. EDIT: I was mistaken, AD8397 is a current-mode opamp, it should be able to source ~280 mA into RE272 20 Ohms. About the only thing I'd be wary of is the pretty large overshoot.

In comparison, Aureon 7.1 Space uses TLC072 in high feedback configuration, I'm not sure what is the max current on that one, but it should be high as well. Likely near 0 output impedance. The WM8775 outputs are also buffered with NMC4580 (a bit of a waste - it's worse than the TLC, should've used those instead). The headphone amp switch turns TLC072 into high gain.

 

Arrow 12HE is of course a good amp, unlike some of the junk turned out here, but it's not meant for IEMs, instead for high impedance full size headphones. 10 Ohm minimum output impedance is a tell-tale sign, introducing noticeable coloration and bass "looseness" in all low-impedance IEMs, more or less noticeable. Were it closer to 0 Ohm, the amp would be very good.

On the up side, the bass boost is very good there in the high setting, having the right knee frequency, just a bit slower slope than necessary and the crossfeed is a very good implementation, though the delay and strength are not configurable enough.

 

--

Never mind, I've found the dynamic reshell thread. Yes, I'm willing to risk the IEM in exchange for perfect fit and better cabling.

The original cables already are pretty stiff around ears.


Edited by AstralStorm - 11/20/11 at 8:19am
post #186 of 272

BTW, for sake of my own curiosity, I've done a curt comparison between RE272, GR07 and DT1350 again.

(Didn't care enough to bring Brainwavz M2 to it - think of it as a poor brother of GR07,)

 

Flaws remaining with correction:

GR07 - slacking bass control; slightly too smooth mids and too grainy highs; springy cable escaping ears; still very slightly sibilant

DT1350 - too much reverberation obscures detail; congested sound; still slightly grainy; needs pressure to seal

RE272 - hardened cable at ear end

 

Flaws possible to correct:

GR07 - sibilant/grainy; a bit harsh; large lower mid boost; recessed upper mids; flat, in-head soundstage

DT1350 - grainy; dry bass (150 Hz notch cut)

RE272 - too little bass; uneven mids causing glassy/smooth feeling to the sound

 

Without eq, DT1350 wins out for me, but with even the weak FiiO E7 bass boost (not to mention anything more advanced), RE272 is a clear winner.

post #187 of 272

Hey, I've found a tweak that makes these far, far flatter sounding to my ears.

 

Modding steps:

1) Remove Hifiman cloth filters.

2) Carefully remove the wad of off-white low density foam they put in. I recommend precision tweezers for this (used for microchip placement)

3) Cut out about 1mm^3 of Comply T foam - should be as large as the nozzle opening.

4) Put the foam in, just right at the nozzle.

 

When done correctly, you get noticeably more subbass (and kick) due to higher dampening (effective Qts) and less 5kHz resonance than original foams. No highest end loss or undesirable qualities noted.

You may dampen highs by putting in too much of the foam or putting it too deep; constricting the driver. When done right, the sensitivity won't change from the original. Done wrong, it will drop dramatically, so it's easy.

 

Edit: Detailed description: resonant frequency went down from 5000 Hz to 3900 Hz. Bass is smoother yet more impactful. 40 Hz and 12 kHz resonances reduced by 6 dB, 5kHz resonance gone, 3kHz cut slightly reduced. Curve is within 6 dB in range 70 Hz to 15 kHz now. Sounds more coherent, even less grainy, more impactful. Soundstaging is wide and boundless, far better than both original and just equalized..All the nano-detailing is still there, even better noticeable as it's much less obscured by other flaws, perhaps enhanced by extra dampening.

 

Make sure you don't use the "smooth" parts of the foam (external) - they obstruct the sound far more. Also a correction to dimensions - best is a rounded cuboid or disc 2.5mm x 2.5mm x 0.75mm.


Edited by AstralStorm - 12/5/11 at 8:22pm
post #188 of 272

I have changed the tips on my RE272, and have a significant increase in the lower end, bass/sub bass.  I purchased the TF 10 on Black Friday, and using the large UE TF 10 stock tips on the TF 10, I got the best bass response.  I have been testing the TF 10 large stock tips on my RE272, with my test tracks, and they fill out the lower end without sacrificing the mids ore treble.  These are now my goto tips for the RE272.

post #189 of 272
Thread Starter 

I should be getting RE272 as loaner in a few days time. Time to catch up and do all the EQ and tip rolling I couldn't do the first time smile.gif

post #190 of 272
Thread Starter 

     Quote:

Originally Posted by i2ehan View Post

I hate to add salt to the wound my friend, but I've been listening to the 272's practically all day today with the Zo V1, and IMHO the Zo makes up for every bit of what's missing from the 272's lows (in terms of weight/impact), just as it does with my ER4S and RE252. basshead.gif

 

Now I know biggrin.gif. Running ZO2v2 out of LO of HM-601 (another loaner). Out of the sources/combos I've tried so far, I liked QA350 -> Opt -> UHA-6S and this one the most. I really can't quantify the differences compared to what I've heard over 3½ months ago, but I like the mid range of 272 a little better this time around. But the sources are all different too!

 

I've stopped analyzing sound for the past few weeks, so don't think I'll go 'technical' on RE272 this time around. But, if there's anything relevant and worth sharing, I'll try to post here.

 

Edit on 11-Dec-11:

 

I've tried RE-272 straight out of HM601, HM601 -> ZO2, HM601 -> UHA6S and QA350 -> Opt -> UHA6S. The last one is the best combo for RE272 so far. I have no complaints about bass with the cleaned (took 2 days, I hate ye all!) bi-flanges. This is the same review sample that I used for the review in post #1 - obtained back under permission from head-direct. This time around, I do not have a cramped schedule, did not have to burn-in anything (RE272 is well past 200 hours now, QA350 has done ~ 450, UHA-6S has ~ 150). No complaints about sound stage, dynamics either with this combo. More relaxed listening first, rest later :)


Edited by esanthosh - 12/11/11 at 8:05am
post #191 of 272

Seriously, while stock biflanges are usable, I'd recommend using marshmellow tips / mushroom tips or Comply T400 or Ts400 (any size that fits, perhaps trimmed).

RE272 seem to work best with non-resonating tips - most normal silicones do resonate or reflect sound.


Edited by AstralStorm - 12/16/11 at 11:28am
post #192 of 272

Stumbled upon this thread looking for experiences of others trying to get custom sleeves made for the RE-262. Thought I'd share my efforts using some silicon 'custom earplug' type putty from 'ProGuard' - similar to the Radians stuff but which sets a lot faster.

 

I've made them so that they sit quite far out in terms of the ear canal, as this makes the soundstage amazing. It does make the bass a bit quieter but I actually quite like the way it flattens it out.

 

More pics if anyone wants them. If you try this be warned that this was my 3rd go: the lessons from the first two are don't try to use too long a 'tube' as this changes the sound a lot, and that there's no need to attach a removable 'adapter' to the phone before sticking it in the silicone, as the sleeve will still be removable once it has set even if it's engulfed your entire earphone.

 

nik

 

 

IMG-20111216-00102.jpg

post #193 of 272

Very Interesting superboob, I would like to know more. How do you immerse the whole IEM & actually also get impression of your ear canal at the same time?

In other words ...What is the proceedure?

post #194 of 272

Wow, you sure have a wide ear canal in comparison to mine. I can't fit the metal part of RE272 deep at all.

Right now as I'm still out of proper Comply T, I'm temporarily using spare medium Comply S, which are overly large.

Works pretty very well actually, I find that they drop all the resonance from RE272, making them sound more refined and removing that "electric"/metallic quality from sound, while improving bass response (control/damping/impact) too - it becomes ever so slightly tighter and punchier which is what they need.

In general, more neutral and "boring" yet somehow more immediate.

Not as good as Comply T though - they make sound dark, probably because they're oversize; that can be equalized very well though, since the response is very smooth.

 

RE272-Comply-S.png


Edited by AstralStorm - 1/4/12 at 7:06pm
post #195 of 272

Hi AstralStorm,

I admit that Phiaton PS200 lacks a bit of bass detail. They sound more natural (apart from EX1000) than other earphones I have used. If you get a chance I recommend you to try PS200 with tx-100 foam tips and let me know how you feel.


Edited by EnjoyMusic - 1/5/12 at 12:33pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav: