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LA7000 vs LCD-2 - Can they even be compared?

post #1 of 17
8/21/11 at 6:24am
Thread Starter 

Hi guys. 

 

As the topic says, I'm wondering about what to get headphone-wise between the LA7000 and LCD-2.Couldn't really find any other thread here on the subject, and I guess that makes sense because people wouldnt really put these two up against each other anyways, but seeing as I own a pair of 7000s, I'm really curious.  

 

I currently own the Denon AH-D7000, and really enjoy them. There are, of course shortcomings I really feel should be rectified with these phones, pretty much what Lawton Audio does. 

 

The thing is, though, that aprox 1000 usd for the mod kind of puts me smack down with a new pair of Audeze LCD-2 as well as keeping my D7000 stock. Yes, I could also get either a pair of HD-800 or T1, but I've been listening to both of them and I can't say I'm spellbound by their sound-signature. Not yet, at least. I guess the 800s are still a safe bet, but they kind of sound too shrilling for me up high, and my retarded brain keeps telling me I lack the bass-punch / feel that I really love in the Denons. 

 

Can these two cans be compared soundwise? I really love the bass I'm getting from my D7000s, even though the whole construction shakes and vibrates due to the poor damping of the housings. I've heard great things about the LCD-2s, and they really look interesting and keeps getting raving reviews. 

 

So, what would you guys do? Go for the L7000, or get the LCD-2? Amps for driving them will either be the matrix m-stage with opamp-swap or Head-Direct EF-1 with sexy mullard-tubes. I guess I could do another amp as well, like the Lyr or something similar priced. 

 

Thanks for your time :) 

 

 

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post #2 of 17
8/21/11 at 7:19am

In my opinion, if you love the sound signature and the bass punch of the Denon 7000  you should go with that.

I have some of the bass head headphone but never directly compared them to each other with my new ECBA.

I just compared the LA7000 (Kal Cedar , Lawton full mod with Jena wire terminated in Neutrik 4 pin XLR) vs LCD2 rev2

(Apuresound V3 recable terminated in Neutrik 4 pin XLR) and because curiosity I also tried the ATH L3000 (Silver Dragon

terminated in 2 X 3 pin XLR , Grado HP P2/1000 (Vixen modification, black gold cable 4 pin Neutrik 4 pin XLR) and Smeggy

Thunderpants (Smeggy version from Fostex 50P, Stax O2 pad, recable terminated in 4 pin XLR Neutrik).

The best bass that I like ( I don't say it's the best bass because it depends on personal preference) is from Grado HP2/HP1000

followed closely by ATH L3000.    I would say the LA7000 is better than the LCD2 rev2: brighter tone, more dynamic, more fun. 

However it may be too bright or too dynamic for some people that the reason why I say that if you like the Denon signature : go with it.

Smeggy thunderpants is also good but fall short of LCD2 rev2 .

LCD2 rev2 when compared to rev1 has less bass and it needs a very good amplifier to bring out the bass to its potential which

I think the ECBA can do that, the same is also true for Smeggy Thunderpants.   LA7000, Grado HP2/HP1000 and ATH L3000

are easier to drive.   ECBA cost a  lot too except you  wait for the Super 7 amplifier from Eddie current, I have heard that it performs

very well with the LCD2 and HD800 and cost a lot less around 40% of the ECBA. http://www.head-fi.org/t/553040/eddie-current-super-7-prototype-impressions-and-pics 

You may also try to get a good second hand LA 7000 which will cost around 1200-1300$ and sell your Denon 7000 that will save you some.

You should also try the LCD2 rev2 with your amplifier whether you like it or not just in case that you may like another sound signature.


Edited by kiertijai - 8/21/11 at 7:27am
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post #3 of 17
8/21/11 at 7:50am
Thread Starter 

Interesting answer, and much appreciated. 

 

I have still yet to see a pair of LA7000 up for sale on the used-section. I could get lucky, though. 

 

But basically, you feel the LA7000s are a step above the LCD-2s, at least if I like the sound of the Denons? I really do, I must admit. The fantastic depth of the sound-signature and huge drivers gives me the feeling of being in an intimate room with lots of the artists I listen to (alot of jazz, indie, some hiphop and alot of electronic music). 

 

Getting to try out the LCD-2s is hard, sadly. Where I live there are few with those cans around, and those who have them are pretty much on the other side of the country. 

 

I'm very curious about the soundstage and detailing on the LA7000s, and of course how the bass transforms after the Lawton-upgrades. I'll have to scavenge the FS/FT-section and just hope I can secure a pair. If not, I might send my 7000s to Lawton, but I suspect it'll take ages with the postage from Norway, the fitting and the sending back. 

 

 

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post #4 of 17
8/21/11 at 7:55am


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargtass View Post

Interesting answer, and much appreciated. 

 

I have still yet to see a pair of LA7000 up for sale on the used-section. I could get lucky, though. 

 

But basically, you feel the LA7000s are a step above the LCD-2s, at least if I like the sound of the Denons? I really do, I must admit. The fantastic depth of the sound-signature and huge drivers gives me the feeling of being in an intimate room with lots of the artists I listen to (alot of jazz, indie, some hiphop and alot of electronic music). 

 

Getting to try out the LCD-2s is hard, sadly. Where I live there are few with those cans around, and those who have them are pretty much on the other side of the country. 

 

I'm very curious about the soundstage and detailing on the LA7000s, and of course how the bass transforms after the Lawton-upgrades. I'll have to scavenge the FS/FT-section and just hope I can secure a pair. If not, I might send my 7000s to Lawton, but I suspect it'll take ages with the postage from Norway, the fitting and the sending back. 

 

 


There is a pair in there now and has been three or four in the last month

 

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post #5 of 17
8/21/11 at 10:41am
Thread Starter 

Any active adds out now? Just did a full scan and it came up with only sold pairs. I guess it's also kind of an issue with cups - them being tailored to what kind of music you like (and I guess the esthetics of it all). 

 

Anyone tried the LA7000 vs the MD7000? Thoughts about the admittedly expensive cable-upgrade. Cables are awesome tho. I really like spiffy cables. 

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post #6 of 17
8/21/11 at 10:16pm

I have both the LA7000 and the LCD2. The LA7000 used to be my go to can for everything. They were quite balanced from top to bottom. They were fairly balanced and were great on every genre. They are a bit warm and more fun but they are comfortable and have a good soundstage. Then came along the T1, lcd2, and he500 which can all kinda do the same.

 

Then came along the lcd2. When I first put them on, I found out they have more bass than the la7000 and it is tighter and better defined. The mids of the lcd2 are a lot better than the la7000. If you like vocals, the lcd2 are a lot better.

 

The la7000 has more high energy that can be fatiguing on the wrong amp and the lcd2 could not have enough highs if on the wrong setup. Actually, the HE500 remind me of the la7000 with it slight warmth, a little more bloom on the bass than the lcd2, the mids are set back more like the la7000, and it has a lot more treble energy. The HE500 treble is very smooth and not harsh at all.

 

Personally, I would get the lcd2. You could try them out and if it isnt what you are looking for, you can turn around and take only around a 100-200 dollar hit and try something else out. It is the better can. Faster, better bass, better mids, better transparency. The only reason I would suggest the la7000 over them is if a person needed a closed can.

 

If you get the fully modded version and decide you dont like it, you could lose up to 600 dollars when you resell. If you still want to give them a try, just have him do the cups, dampening, and pad stuffing. Then you wont lose as much if you resell. The cable is the expensive part and it has the least effect on the sound. If you like the sound you can always have it recabled later.

 

If you

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post #7 of 17
8/22/11 at 1:35am
Thread Starter 

The last reply was something I sort of expected, seeing as the LCD-2s are newer with a different technology. 

 

What is left is figuring out how much of a horrible person I'll be with the LCD-2s on when my girlfriend is in the room. The Denons really doesnt give anything away, and she can happily do whatever woman-stuff she does. Thing is tho, for the price of the LA7000-mod I can STILL get a pair of LCD-2s, use those when the girlfriend is NOT around and use the D7000s on lower volume when she is dancing around me. 

 

Will the LCD-2s even accept a "budget"-amp like the matrix m-stage or the head-direct EF1? 

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post #8 of 17
8/22/11 at 4:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargtass View Post

Will the LCD-2s even accept a "budget"-amp like the matrix m-stage or the head-direct EF1? 


Accept it? The LCD-2 is considered one of the easier high end cans to power. If you ever found a Matrix M-Stage running out of power you wouldn't care anyway, because you'd be dead with smoke coming out of your ears. Accept it indeed!

 

tongue.gif  
 

 

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post #9 of 17
8/22/11 at 6:10am
Thread Starter 

Haha. Righto - seems the m-stage I've got with a opa627ap-swap will "do the job". I'm very tempted to just order up a pair of LCD-2 now and sell them in case I wouldn't like them (which I really doubt). That, and keep my D7000 for those situations where the girlfriend will start contemplating how to make me "dead with smoke coming out of my ears" if I use open phones. 

 

Also started to look at the Matrix Quattro, seeing as it is able to run fully balanced. Means I could get some phat cables for the LCD-2s and probably enjoy the phones even more. I'm somewhat on a student budget, tho I can clearly see it all falling apart pretty soon :)

 

Thanks for your help and input, everybody. It's very nice to have fellow addicts helping me out! 

 

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post #10 of 17
8/22/11 at 6:34am

I also agreed that the LCD2 rev1 or rev2 are easier to drive comparing to the HD800, T1 or HE6.  I have compared

those with my previous ZDT amplifier.  I have also used those with my balanced beta 22 amplifier.   The LA7000,

ATH3000 , Grado HP2 are easier to drive than the LCD2 and that are easily detected.  However to drive headphones to hear loud sound is quite different from the ability of the amplifier to make that phone shines.  As I mentioned earlier the ZDT which is a very

good amplifier but I don't think we can compare the quality  from LCD2 rev1 or rev2 with those of ECBA (balanced

beta 22 included).  This post is not by any means wanted us to purchase the ECBA which is very expensive or boast about the

amplifier.   The post that I wanted to communicate is that the potential of LCD2 is probably much more than we thought and that can

be shown better with the better amplifier.  To choose the LCD2 you will probably try with your own setup whether you are satisfied

with that or not.  For those who want to know more about the ECBA please take a look at the 6 moon review of ECBA which

won the amplifier of the year 2010 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/eddiecurrent3/6.html .   And here is the comments made

by Eaglejo who didn't use his high priced speakers after he acquired the LCD2 + ECBA . He also suggested many things concerning

this combo including removing the foam from the LCD2 rev1 but I didn't find that necessary.

 

"I've got the Audez'e LCD-2s (recabled with Stefan Art Audio's balanced Endorphin wire) with an Eddie Current Balancing Act headphone amp. The sound is spectacular. My source is the Metric Halo LIO-8 pro DAC which is quite the rage on computeraudiophile.com. That replaced a Weiss Minerva and a tweaked Technics SL1200 turntable. I lost my listening room which prompted the move to headphones. I haven't regretted it for a moment. I used to have Avantgarde Duo Omegas and Shindo electronics in a 1,500sf open loft." Indeed. I'd say the same for the BA/LCD-2 combo if circumstances forced me to abandon my big system anchored by Franck Tchang's fabulous ASI Tango R speakers 

 

There are also informations regardings the ECBA + LCD2 in the head-fi http://www.head-fi.org/t/407413/eddie-current-balancing-act/75 

However there is few info concerning the LA7000. However in my opinion after trying to listen to the LA7000 vs LCD2 rev2 in A/B comparision

I got the impression that the bass of LA7000 is faster , more dynamic , more fun with probably wider soundstage (those are relative) than the LCD2 rev2 bass

which is also very good, so I have to leave that to the listener to decide with his own setup.  I also would not like you to spend another 1000$

for the modification so I proposed that if you really like the LA7000  sound signature you may consider 2nd hand LA7000 than to send your old pair to

modify.  However if you dare to find new sound signature you may purchase LCD2 but do understand that we also need good source and good amplifier

to make the LCD2 rev1 or rev2 shine but there is probably much cost to pay than the modification if you want the better setup.   I also mentioned the Super 7

because it may be a good alternative choice for the ECBA  however there are other  several good amplifiers but I cannot comment on that because limited experience.

 

    


Edited by kiertijai - 8/22/11 at 6:41am
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post #11 of 17
8/22/11 at 7:00am
Thread Starter 

A 1500+ usd-amp is sadly out of the question for me for several years to come, meaning ECBA is out for this semi-starving student. 

 

What I really like hearing is the fact that the LCD-2s just keeps growing, whatever amp you throw at it. I'm hoping it will deliver something my D7000 can not at the moment (soundstage, airyness, speed) and make me understand what open cans are all about, seeing as I don't really consider HE-800s my cup of tea. 

 

I will no doubt be able to sell the LCD-2s pretty easily if I were to find them not to my liking. At the same time, I'd probably try the Matrix Quattro fully balanced and some new balanced cables for the LCD-2s before I sold them off. 

 

I just placed an order for a pair of LCD-2, and I'm pretty sure I'll be happy as a weird kind of frog that really likes music. 

Yes, I might have to bump my amp (considerably) in the coming months, but at least I'll get to learn what the 2's sounds like, and I'm REALLY looking forward to that. I can only imagine what they'll sound like, when i already feel my D7000s have fantastic mids and a pretty airy and good soundstage. It's probably very much like a toyota-driver being exposed to a ferraris accelration for the first time (admittedly a kinda nice toyota, do mind). 

 

I'd like to thank you all for your effort and replies in this thread. Thanks :)


Edited by Vargtass - 8/22/11 at 11:07am
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post #12 of 17
10/24/11 at 9:20am

By now, you must have been enjoying your LCD-2.  How do you like it?  Is it worth?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargtass View Post

A 1500+ usd-amp is sadly out of the question for me for several years to come, meaning ECBA is out for this semi-starving student. 

 

What I really like hearing is the fact that the LCD-2s just keeps growing, whatever amp you throw at it. I'm hoping it will deliver something my D7000 can not at the moment (soundstage, airyness, speed) and make me understand what open cans are all about, seeing as I don't really consider HE-800s my cup of tea. 

 

I will no doubt be able to sell the LCD-2s pretty easily if I were to find them not to my liking. At the same time, I'd probably try the Matrix Quattro fully balanced and some new balanced cables for the LCD-2s before I sold them off. 

 

I just placed an order for a pair of LCD-2, and I'm pretty sure I'll be happy as a weird kind of frog that really likes music. 

Yes, I might have to bump my amp (considerably) in the coming months, but at least I'll get to learn what the 2's sounds like, and I'm REALLY looking forward to that. I can only imagine what they'll sound like, when i already feel my D7000s have fantastic mids and a pretty airy and good soundstage. It's probably very much like a toyota-driver being exposed to a ferraris accelration for the first time (admittedly a kinda nice toyota, do mind). 

 

I'd like to thank you all for your effort and replies in this thread. Thanks :)



 

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post #13 of 17
10/24/11 at 9:50am
Thread Starter 

Well ... heh. 

 

I had the LCD-2's for a couple of weeks paired with the Matrix M-stage, which didn't really feed them sufficient power. 

 

So I took the plunge and got a Matrix Quattro balanced amp, and ordered up a pair of Q-audio balanced cables, and wow did that help alot with control, volume and power. 

 

Thing is, my LCD-2's died shortly after, and upon checking I realized that I had phones with a serial number corresponding to one other incident that left an element dead. Absurd amounts of bad luck (if that's what killed them, and I suspect it was just that, bad luck). 

 

So - uh, what can I say. I haven't really had a chance to really listen to the LCD-2's with the power they really want and need. Yeah, they can be driven by the m-stage, but not with the authority that they want. 

 

I do miss my D7000's, and the absurd bass they delivered, but I can't help but feel that they didn't really play "right". Not that it really matters in the end. You just got to pick a sound you like and stick to it. Concerning detail, clarity and soundstage, the LCD-2's are further ahead of the D7000's than I was expecting, and my surprise was pretty big. At the same time, the D7000's got the upper hand on pure bass as well as comfort. 

 

I haven't had a chance to audition the LA7000's. Who knows, maybe I'll pick up a pair in a couple of years when I'm not a student. 

 

For now, I'm enjoying nothing thoroughly :D

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post #14 of 17
10/24/11 at 11:00am

Thank you for the reply.  I guess you have just returned it for refund.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargtass View Post

Well ... heh. 

 

I had the LCD-2's for a couple of weeks paired with the Matrix M-stage, which didn't really feed them sufficient power. 

 

So I took the plunge and got a Matrix Quattro balanced amp, and ordered up a pair of Q-audio balanced cables, and wow did that help alot with control, volume and power. 

 

Thing is, my LCD-2's died shortly after, and upon checking I realized that I had phones with a serial number corresponding to one other incident that left an element dead. Absurd amounts of bad luck (if that's what killed them, and I suspect it was just that, bad luck). 

 

So - uh, what can I say. I haven't really had a chance to really listen to the LCD-2's with the power they really want and need. Yeah, they can be driven by the m-stage, but not with the authority that they want. 

 

I do miss my D7000's, and the absurd bass they delivered, but I can't help but feel that they didn't really play "right". Not that it really matters in the end. You just got to pick a sound you like and stick to it. Concerning detail, clarity and soundstage, the LCD-2's are further ahead of the D7000's than I was expecting, and my surprise was pretty big. At the same time, the D7000's got the upper hand on pure bass as well as comfort. 

 

I haven't had a chance to audition the LA7000's. Who knows, maybe I'll pick up a pair in a couple of years when I'm not a student. 

 

For now, I'm enjoying nothing thoroughly :D



 

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post #15 of 17
10/24/11 at 11:09am
Thread Starter 

The phones are at Audez'e now, and have been there for about a week. 

 

I have to admit I have mailed them through their support mail and asked if they could replace them with a pair of LCD-3's with me paying the 1000 USD (seeing as I've already paid the LCD-2's). They're probably going to politely let me down, but hey, I figured I should give it a shot. They'll be able to sell my LCD-2's as new once they replace the defect driver anyways, I guess :) 

 

So yeah, back they went and hopefully they'll ship them back asap - I REALLY can't stand the waiting any more :(

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