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- productAudeze LCD2 Planar Magnetic Headphonestagged by System, 8/29/11
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- productKoss ESP-950 Electrostatic Stereophonetagged by System, 9/13/11
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Headphone CSD waterfall plots - Page 15
Gear mentioned in this thread:post #212 of 9379/28/11 at 7:17ampost #214 of 9379/28/11 at 9:57ampost #215 of 9379/28/11 at 10:38amThread StarterQuote:Originally Posted by electropop
Wow, very interesting to read. Thank you!
Purrin, you use the word "musical information". I'd be interested to know what you mean by this. I use it a lot because it's a priority for me in audio reproduction. What I personally mean with this wording, is absolute pitch articulation: it's easy to tell whether an instrument is in tune, easier to tab notes and the "message" behind a musical piece is apparent. You don't have to pinch your ears to hear it.
Let's see. Hmm. How I can explain this better? Maybe the lowest level "bits" in which comprises a digitized signal? I definitely don't mean absolute pitch, but related to that are the harmonics or textures of a particular sound. The ability to maintain inner or micro dynamics intact. The data which is very low in level - so low that it's could almost be more of a sense that something you hear. I hesitate to use resolution, because that word could be many different things. Here's another example: Have you ever heard a 45RPM single and compared it to a 33RPM record? I have a few of these wierd LP issues from Angel where they released special 45RPM LP's of classical recordings in the 70s. They just have more resolution, more reality.
It's very hard to describe, but every piece of gear has a certain floor where the musical information below this floor isn't being reproduced well. This information could be missing, partially obscured, compressed in dynamics, with these effects varying depending upon frequency. Here's another example: I have this Mozart Requiem CD from AAM. I had read in the liner notes that a childrens' choir was used in the recording, but never much though of it. On a good setup, you don't really notice it's young boys singing because of the size of the choir and the reverberant recording venue. If you listen hard enough you can tell. On a great setup, it's becomes like: "How cow, those are boys, the method of delivery, how the individual boy's voice boxes reverberate differently." Now, I am not necessarily talking about the "Oh wow, I never heard that before" effect because those are gross or macro effects. I'm talking about the super subtle information, and how the culmination of all of it makes music comes to life. (We are just talking about low-level information here as one of the factors, there are others such as dynamics.)
The best way to understand what I am talking about is to actually experience it for yourself. I know I'm going to sound condescending, but maybe 1 of 1000 Head-Fi'ers has actually had a taste of what true "high fidelity" really sounds like. It starts from the recording. And then the source.Quote:
I would like to figure this out. There's some correlation with the CSDs. There's something to be said for those headphones with fast decays and fairly clean floors.Quote:
That's where it starts.Quote:
Anax was just referring to the fact that I've been held back on a lot of my true opinions of many headphones. I basically said out of the recent batch of five, one sounds good, three sound like garbage, and one's an enigma.
Edited by purrin - 9/28/11 at 10:39ampost #216 of 9379/28/11 at 11:48am
Ah, when you put it like that, I understand :)
Source, yes. I don't think you sound condescending. You might actually be right! ... Might even be less than what you guess.
"Musicality" or "musical information" can be many things to many people. Thanks for clearing up what you mean by it. I like to see the term from a musician's instead of an audiophile's viewpoint: what is in the recording that constitutes to the recording's musical ie. rhythmic, melodic, harmonic etc. content. In other words, each instrument hitting the right note at the right time. Hope this makes sense...
Just giving the LCD-2 a second chance (have them for loan). Listening them through my Linn DS player and they are a bit better from what I remembered. Not worth their price though and although they bring many of these "micro details/macro effects" from recordings, making them sound more thorough and real perhaps, my K272's are, for tenth of the price, quite worthy competitors in bringing out the musical information (as I see it).
Regarding your last paragraph: I vote for "please do". If a certain headphone is garbage and you can back it up with good reasoning, why not state it in a strong fashion? Much more fun reading, at least
Anyways, thanks for your response and continuing interesting work! Apologies for not raising anything scientific or educational, was just too interested and selfish, heh. If you do find anything that might indeed explain why other headphones play notes according to their pitch better than others, let us know!post #217 of 9379/28/11 at 11:52am
Yes, that tv in the picture indeed seems to be utilizing a good old fashioned CRT display :)post #218 of 9379/28/11 at 1:46pmQuote:Originally Posted by purrin
Wow these sounds good. Not as dead, thick, or bassy sounding as I remembered (from other setups.) Bass a little slow - not as tight as I would like. Actually bass is not bad. Not bad at all. Good air and treble extension. Surprising ability to extract low-level information (I mean real information, not treble boosted pseudo information.) No appreciable ringing - maybe one small spot. The HD650/600 should be the go to phone for anyone relatively new to the hobby - before they start spending big bucks. These would be even better if converted to balanced on the BA. FR is smooth with a boost in bass, and a touch of boost in treble. An excellent implementation of pleasant and forgiving withOUT decimating musical information. Why couldn't Sennheiser make an HD800 with a tonal balance like this? LOL. Having a hard time taking these off for measurements. These headphones move me: the musical information, the sense of "it is there." Hmm, just switched to some different material, there's some midrange boost. The EML 300Bs are a little too thick and bloomy in the lower mids for these, KR PX4 may be better.
OK, here we go:
Everything after 1ms past 1kHz is dark blue (less than -30db). This is fairly fast decay.
The "veil" is a myth. Spread the word.post #219 of 9379/28/11 at 2:08pmThread Starter
The veil thing came from a time where there wasn't much choice with headphones amps. These headphones are a little bit harder to drive than most.post #220 of 9379/28/11 at 2:13pm
Bravo my friend...Bravo!
If you really want to screw with someone's perception, don't use a boy's choir....use a castrato.post #221 of 9379/28/11 at 2:19pm
Might they show more variance with less than ideal amping than the ESP950? Would be nice to see since this claim seems to come from many owners regarding the HD650.post #222 of 9379/28/11 at 2:21pmQuote:
It´s possible to get the sound as clear as on the LCD-2 on the HD 650? Is the HD 650 really that much more difficult to drive then say a HD 800 or T1?post #223 of 9379/28/11 at 2:21pmQuote:
I always felt the 650 had a veil...still do and I have yet to hear a 650 without it. I owned a pair for over a year and never quite got used to its sonic presentation. Always preferred the 600.post #224 of 9379/28/11 at 2:23pmQuote:
I think you would have to get that bass under control with the 650 and you would have to mod a bit. Even then, I doubt you could get to an ortho level with a dynamic headphone. It's easier to reach or exceed the LCD-2 with a Fostex T50/T40 than with a dynamic IMHO. Just my opinion of course.post #225 of 9379/28/11 at 2:24pmQuote:
Don't get me wrong, me too. But the "veil" is used to describe the HD600 as well.
What I meant to say, was that it would be interesting to see the effects of less than ideal amping in Purrin's measurements. Faster decay at certain areas due to adequate amping? Certainly, but to what degree?
- Headphone CSD waterfall plots
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