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Westone 4 an Upgrade from Turbine Coppers?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 

I am going to be purchase a pair of new headphones tommorow but I am looking for a step up from the MTPCs. I adore my MTPCs but after hearing some of the Grado's qualities I started craving certain aspects my IEMs did't project. I decided that a hybrid between the MTPCs and Grados Cans would be ideal. The neutrality and punchy bass(can do with less quantity) that the Turbine Coppers provide and the clarity and detail that Grados provide would be the perfect sound for me. I was thinking about the Westone 4s as a possible candidate, but of course other suggestions are more than welcome.

 

1) Would a step up from the Turbine Coppers be significant?

2) Is it possible to match Grado SR325is' sound with $500 IEMs?

3) Which IEM best fits my descriptions?

 

Amp: iBasso T3

Music Genre: 90% Metal, 10% Rock

Source: Cowon D3


Edited by NonApplicable - 8/12/11 at 7:17pm
post #2 of 24

if you can, check out Grado's in-ear models. A buddy of mine has the gr10 and they're great

post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 

Im not sure about them. How do they compare to full size grado cans?

post #4 of 24
Thread Starter 

How big of a step up is the Westone 4s or Shure SE535 from the Turbine Coppers! I can't find any info!


Edited by NonApplicable - 8/12/11 at 7:42pm
post #5 of 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by NonApplicable View Post

How big of a step up is the Westone 4s or Shure SE535 from the Turbine Coppers! I can't find any info!


Not that far up. The Coppers are in the same league as the W4s, SE535s, CK10s, TF10s, SM3s, IE8s, EQ5/7s, etc. etc.. 

So far I've read many reviews and impressions of many of these Top-Tiers, including the Coppers, and I can guarantee you the others are not necessarily a "step up" from the Coppers. People like dweaver, project86, and many others seem to really enjoy them and sometimes prefer them over other top-tiers they've heard. It's all up to preference, so try a few out and see what you like.

Good Luck!   

post #6 of 24

i have coppers and upgraded to the w4s - here's what to expect:

 

the coppers have a super boosted, flubby bass that's awesome for dubstep. it's a very fun earphone in that way.  you can actually feel the bass punching your eardrums because it's a dynamic driver.  i thought that the turbines were muddy when i went to the coppers, then i tried BA iems (se535, westone 3, um3x, w4) and realized the coppers were pretty muddy themselves!

 

the w4s have significantly more detail in all ranges and realism to instruments that you won't have ever picked up with the coppers - switching back and forth, the coppers sound a bit artificial especially in the frequency extremes. where the coppers just play back notes, the w4 gives you the texture and timbre of the instrument playing the note.  BA phones are also very fast compared to coppers so they handle fast metal better.

 

the treble detail and extension is a huge step up on the westones - cymbals have a fine shimmer like they do in real life, they are much crispier and detailed and on a completely different level than the coppers.  treble presence is also increased over the coppers, which took me a week to get used to.

 

the mids on the w4s i find slightly veiled for some reason, but they sound warm and more realistic than the coppers.  listening to distortion on guitars is a treat on these earphones, the texture of the distortion on guitars is really brought out on the w4s.

 

there's about 3x less bass than the coppers, as the w4s are designed to be flat.  that said, you'll hear bass detail like you've never heard with the w4 - i hear every nuance of the bass guitar, and by comparison, coppers just play a bass note but on the w4s actually show you the texture of the note.  i didn't know that bass guitars had tone until the westones lol.  quantity is hugely decreased compared to the coppers, and the w4 bass is SUPER TIGHT.  very controlled.  more than i'd like for a lot of songs, but i expected this switching from a bass heavy dynamic to a reference, flat BA phone.

 

soundstage is very 3d and like an open semi-circle compared to the coppers.

 

one of the biggest things that got me when i switched to the w4s though:  instrumental separation and imaging.  instruments have a clearly defined position in the soundstage and stay there - you can listen through an entire song and focus on only one instrument all the way through and clearly hear what that particular instrument is doing throughout the entire song.  that was worth me giving up the bass impact and bass extension of the coppers (i have a bass heavy EQ on my source anyway, but you still can't make a BA push air like a dynamic).

 

instrumental separation is actually one of the hallmarks of the westone 4, along with the UM3X, so I believe that those are the best that top tier universals get as far as that AFAIK.  i EQd away the bass hump of the coppers and realized that the instruments are actually all squashed together by comparison (of course, the difference varies with the quality of the recording and how well it was mastered, some tracks the difference is huge, poorly done tracks are noticeably squashed on both earphones but the w4 still tries to spread it out!).

 

efficiency:  while the w4 is inefficient for a BA iem because of the 4 drivers, it is still more efficient than the coppers - on my cowon my listening volume is reduced by 7-12 clicks (out of 40)

 

also, i noticed that the w4s have a recessed centre field / vocal presentation compared to most other earphones... they tend to favour backing instruments as one other person mentioned on head fi.

 

 

as for grados, i tried a pair (i don't know what it was but it was in the 100-200 dollar range) for a couple minutes and thought it sounded somewhat similar to my coppers, with the same fun, punchy, albeit slightly muddy bass.  if you liked the bass on coppers and grados then you'll miss it on the w4s.


Edited by creamsoda - 8/13/11 at 8:56am
post #7 of 24


X2...The W4 is clearly more technically superior than the Copper; that's about all I can add. The Copper is, however, an enjoyable iem from what I remember of it when I owned it. But If lots of bass is important to you in the sound signature, don't go for the W4. If quality of bass is more important to you, then the W4 will be right for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by creamsoda View Post

i have coppers and upgraded to the w4s - here's what to expect:

 

the coppers have a super boosted, flubby bass that's awesome for dubstep. it's a very fun earphone in that way.  you can actually feel the bass punching your eardrums because it's a dynamic driver.  i thought that the turbines were muddy when i went to the coppers, then i tried BA iems (se535, westone 3, um3x, w4) and realized the coppers were pretty muddy themselves!

 

the w4s have significantly more detail in all ranges and realism to instruments that you won't have ever picked up with the coppers - switching back and forth, the coppers sound a bit artificial especially in the frequency extremes. where the coppers just play back notes, the w4 gives you the texture and timbre of the instrument playing the note.  BA phones are also very fast compared to coppers so they handle fast metal better.

 

the treble detail and extension is a huge step up on the westones - cymbals have a fine shimmer like they do in real life, they are much crispier and detailed and on a completely different level than the coppers.  treble presence is also increased over the coppers, which took me a week to get used to.

 

the mids on the w4s i find slightly veiled for some reason, but they sound warm and more realistic than the coppers.  listening to distortion on guitars is a treat on these earphones, the texture of the distortion on guitars is really brought out on the w4s.

 

there's about 3x less bass than the coppers, as the w4s are designed to be flat.  that said, you'll hear bass detail like you've never heard with the w4 - i hear every nuance of the bass guitar, and by comparison, coppers just play a bass note but on the w4s actually show you the texture of the note.  i didn't know that bass guitars had tone until the westones lol.  quantity is hugely decreased compared to the coppers, and the w4 bass is SUPER TIGHT.  very controlled.  more than i'd like for a lot of songs, but i expected this switching from a bass heavy dynamic to a reference, flat BA phone.

 

soundstage is very 3d and like an open semi-circle compared to the coppers.

 

one of the biggest things that got me when i switched to the w4s though:  instrumental separation and imaging.  instruments have a clearly defined position in the soundstage and stay there - you can listen through an entire song and focus on only one instrument all the way through and clearly hear what that particular instrument is doing throughout the entire song.  that was worth me giving up the bass impact and bass extension of the coppers (i have a bass heavy EQ on my source anyway, but you still can't make a BA push air like a dynamic).

 

instrumental separation is actually one of the hallmarks of the westone 4, along with the UM3X, so I believe that those are the best that top tier universals get as far as that AFAIK.  i EQd away the bass hump of the coppers and realized that the instruments are actually all squashed together by comparison (of course, the difference varies with the quality of the recording and how well it was mastered, some tracks the difference is huge, poorly done tracks are noticeably squashed on both earphones but the w4 still tries to spread it out!).

 

efficiency:  while the w4 is inefficient for a BA iem because of the 4 drivers, it is still more efficient than the coppers - on my cowon my listening volume is reduced by 7-12 clicks (out of 40)

 

also, i noticed that the w4s have a recessed centre field / vocal presentation compared to most other earphones... they tend to favour backing instruments as one other person mentioned on head fi.

 

 

as for grados, i tried a pair (i don't know what it was but it was in the 100-200 dollar range) for a couple minutes and thought it sounded somewhat similar to my coppers, with the same fun, punchy, albeit slightly muddy bass.  if you liked the bass on coppers and grados then you'll miss it on the w4s.



 

post #8 of 24

The coppers are a fun iem ,and quite detailed but once the fun factor wears off you realize that they start to sound boring and slightly artificial sounding .The westone 4 is a far better earphone , more detailed across the board ,more natural , better instrument separation and is capable of pounding out some awsome bass notes when paired with the right source .

post #9 of 24

My thoughts on the coppers completely, well put.

post #10 of 24

I had the pleasure of trying the W4 for a while recently, and to my ears they were clearly better than my Coppers. With a caveat. Bass. In comparison, very little impact and quantity. So they left me wanting when listening to hip-hop, DnB, etc. They were just insanely detailed and clear, though.

post #11 of 24

Been hearing some complaints on the W4 appreciation thread about Westones not being as transparent as some other Top-Tiers.

How does the transparency of the W4 compare to the Coppers?

Thanks 

post #12 of 24

much better than the coppers i find.  going back to the coppers i find things almost artificial and unrealistic especially in bass and treble (kick drum, cymbals sound unnatural).  or it's just that the westone 4s sound so much more natural than anything else i've heard. virtual haircut on these sent chills down my back but not on coppers.

 

i'd label myself a recovering basshead as i'm beginning to appreciate the near-neutralness of the bass on the westones, i use minimal bass boost on my J3 now to give the overall sound more body and some fun.


Edited by creamsoda - 8/14/11 at 10:47pm
post #13 of 24

i have both (w4 and top of the line monster coppers)

 

When I can rarely get a good seal with the coppers, they have huge bass and lacking everything in the middle and upper reaches

 

The W4 I always get a perfect seal due to um56 custom buds...and they just stomp my coppers.  If I really need a little more bass  i can EQ up +2db or...its already good but not as face shaking as the monster.

 

I do think i would enjoy the monster's more with a custom mold that i do with the supplied bag of useless generic tips.

 

Honestly i would get a custom molded JH-5 at the current prices and be happy - at the time i bought W4 and had um56 from um3x it made sense, but now I would just pony up for customs and be done.

 

Im hoping I can return the coppers still  - if not ill just sell them here and never touch them again.  I do think I would like a custom fit dynamic IEM...im surfing those threads myself.

post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by twylight View Post

i have both (w4 and top of the line monster coppers)

 

When I can rarely get a good seal with the coppers, they have huge bass and lacking everything in the middle and upper reaches

 

The W4 I always get a perfect seal due to um56 custom buds...and they just stomp my coppers.  If I really need a little more bass  i can EQ up +2db or...its already good but not as face shaking as the monster.

 

I do think i would enjoy the monster's more with a custom mold that i do with the supplied bag of useless generic tips.

 

Honestly i would get a custom molded JH-5 at the current prices and be happy - at the time i bought W4 and had um56 from um3x it made sense, but now I would just pony up for customs and be done.

 

Im hoping I can return the coppers still  - if not ill just sell them here and never touch them again.  I do think I would like a custom fit dynamic IEM...im surfing those threads myself.

That's not what the coppers sound like with a good seal.

 

You're not getting a good seal, you're getting a suction seal (which leads to big bass and poor space, detail and an overly dark sound).

 

The coppers, in reality, have a more balanced sound with excellent treble extension and quite a bit of treble energy, a slightly warm midrange and an excellent bass that does not intrude on the mids. They sound moderately spacious, with neither a large nor a small soundstage. But that's only with a truly good fit, which you haven't had, yet.
 

 

post #15 of 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

That's not what the coppers sound like with a good seal.

 

You're not getting a good seal, you're getting a suction seal (which leads to big bass and poor space, detail and an overly dark sound).

 

The coppers, in reality, have a more balanced sound with excellent treble extension and quite a bit of treble energy, a slightly warm midrange and an excellent bass that does not intrude on the mids. They sound moderately spacious, with neither a large nor a small soundstage. But that's only with a truly good fit, which you haven't had, yet.
 

 

Agreed. Even though the Coppers make it difficult to find a good fit and seal, they're really rewarding when you find a good pair of tips and work with them a little.

I really hope people can give them a chance, they might surprise you.biggrin.gif

 

 

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