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Fostex HP-P1 Portable Amplifier and DAC for iPod/iPhone (Short REVIEW and Impressions Thread) - Page 82

post #1216 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdourado View Post
 

Still in this regard... :)

I am annoying, I know...

 

Anyway... The HP-P1 comes with a short 30 pin to usb cable.

If using an iPod classic or 4th gen touch with 30 pin connector, is it worth it to upgrade said cable to something like an ALO Cable?

Will sound be different and better? Or since it is carrying digital binary data, it will sound the same.

 

Cheers!

 

Let me explain by way of a fictional analogy:

 

If you had a Ferrari 458 and asked whether it mattered if you upgraded from Pirelli P Zero stock tyres to the new Pirelli P Zero Corsa tyres, the answer would be yes, you'd gain 0.5 secs a lap at the Nurburgring which is not a small amount of time for a Ferrari on race day.

 

If you then asked if the Pirelli P Zero Corsa's will make a difference over the Stock P Zero Tyres on your Toyota Corolla, then the answer is don't waste your money.

 

Similarly, if you are running lowfi straight from your Fostex and listening to MP3's then it probably won't matter and you won't hear a difference. If however you are running a dedicated external amplifier, playing lossless audio to a pair of magnetic planar headphones then yes, there is an appreciable difference.

 

Digital binary data and how it was explained to me in layman's terms: Digital audio is not all entirely error free when it comes to music streaming. There are still interference and signal losses when streaming large bandwidth data. This is not a PC to PC situation where you are sending a digital file and both ends have error correcting algorythms that request resending of data that was corrupted or incomplete due to interference or signal losses. In this case the ipod is sending out streams of 0's and 1's, a few missed 1's and a few missed 0's in streamed music data is not going to picked up by the Fostex as it will accept whatever it is given and analogue convert whatever it is given. There is no error correction in the sense that it says "hang on is that right mr ipod? can you resend". It will just convert what it is given. I think it is called "signal clipping" if you want to google it, but not entirely sure what the term is. The better shielded cable with better signal will give you a more true and accurate stream of data.

 

That above can totally be wrong however, you judge for yourself.


Edited by Lillee - 2/13/14 at 1:59pm
post #1217 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillee View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdourado View Post
 

Still in this regard... :)

I am annoying, I know...

 

Anyway... The HP-P1 comes with a short 30 pin to usb cable.

If using an iPod classic or 4th gen touch with 30 pin connector, is it worth it to upgrade said cable to something like an ALO Cable?

Will sound be different and better? Or since it is carrying digital binary data, it will sound the same.

 

Cheers!

 

Let me explain by way of a fictional analogy:

 

If you had a Ferrari 458 and asked whether it mattered if you upgraded from Pirelli P Zero stock tyres to the new Pirelli P Zero Corsa tyres, the answer would be yes, you'd gain 0.5 secs a lap at the Nurburgring which is not a small amount of time for a Ferrari on race day.

 

If you then asked if the Pirelli P Zero Corsa's will make a difference over the Stock P Zero Tyres on your Toyota Corolla, then the answer is don't waste your money.

 

Similarly, if you are running lowfi straight from your Fostex and listening to MP3's then it probably won't matter and you won't hear a difference. If however you are running a dedicated external amplifier, playing lossless audio to a pair of magnetic planar headphones then yes, there is an appreciable difference.

 

Digital binary data and how it was explained to me in layman's terms: Digital audio is not all entirely error free when it comes to music streaming. There are still interference and signal losses when streaming large bandwidth data. This is not a PC to PC situation where you are sending a digital file and both ends have error correcting algorythms that request resending of data that was corrupted or incomplete due to interference or signal losses. In this case the ipod is sending out streams of 0's and 1's, a few missed 1's and a few missed 0's in streamed music data is not going to picked up by the Fostex as it will accept whatever it is given and analogue convert whatever it is given. There is no error correction in the sense that it says "hang on is that right mr ipod? can you resend". It will just convert what it is given. I think it is called "signal clipping" if you want to google it. The better shielded cable with better signal will give you a more true and accurate stream of data.

 

That above can totally be wrong however, you judge for yourself.

Good analogy Lillee. I have a Toxic Cable Silver Poison LOD for the HP-P1...However, all files are lossless and I am running the HP-P1 into my JH16's.....

post #1218 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillee View Post
 

 

Let me explain by way of a fictional analogy:

 

If you had a Ferrari 458 and asked whether it mattered if you upgraded from Pirelli P Zero stock tyres to the new Pirelli P Zero Corsa tyres, the answer would be yes, you'd gain 0.5 secs a lap at the Nurburgring which is not a small amount of time for a Ferrari on race day.

 

If you then asked if the Pirelli P Zero Corsa's will make a difference over the Stock P Zero Tyres on your Toyota Corolla, then the answer is don't waste your money.

 

Similarly, if you are running lowfi straight from your Fostex and listening to MP3's then it probably won't matter and you won't hear a difference. If however you are running a dedicated external amplifier, playing lossless audio to a pair of magnetic planar headphones then yes, there is an appreciable difference.

 

Digital binary data and how it was explained to me in layman's terms: Digital audio is not all entirely error free when it comes to music streaming. There are still interference and signal losses when streaming large bandwidth data. This is not a PC to PC situation where you are sending a digital file and both ends have error correcting algorythms that request resending of data that was corrupted or incomplete due to interference or signal losses. In this case the ipod is sending out streams of 0's and 1's, a few missed 1's and a few missed 0's in streamed music data is not going to picked up by the Fostex as it will accept whatever it is given and analogue convert whatever it is given. There is no error correction in the sense that it says "hang on is that right mr ipod? can you resend". It will just convert what it is given. I think it is called "signal clipping" if you want to google it, but not entirely sure what the term is. The better shielded cable with better signal will give you a more true and accurate stream of data.

 

That above can totally be wrong however, you judge for yourself.

Great explanation! :)

Thank you for taking the time to write this up.

 

Cheers!

post #1219 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillee View Post
 

 

Let me explain by way of a fictional analogy:

 

If you had a Ferrari 458 and asked whether it mattered if you upgraded from Pirelli P Zero stock tyres to the new Pirelli P Zero Corsa tyres, the answer would be yes, you'd gain 0.5 secs a lap at the Nurburgring which is not a small amount of time for a Ferrari on race day.

 

If you then asked if the Pirelli P Zero Corsa's will make a difference over the Stock P Zero Tyres on your Toyota Corolla, then the answer is don't waste your money.

 

Similarly, if you are running lowfi straight from your Fostex and listening to MP3's then it probably won't matter and you won't hear a difference. If however you are running a dedicated external amplifier, playing lossless audio to a pair of magnetic planar headphones then yes, there is an appreciable difference.

 

Digital binary data and how it was explained to me in layman's terms: Digital audio is not all entirely error free when it comes to music streaming. There are still interference and signal losses when streaming large bandwidth data. This is not a PC to PC situation where you are sending a digital file and both ends have error correcting algorythms that request resending of data that was corrupted or incomplete due to interference or signal losses. In this case the ipod is sending out streams of 0's and 1's, a few missed 1's and a few missed 0's in streamed music data is not going to picked up by the Fostex as it will accept whatever it is given and analogue convert whatever it is given. There is no error correction in the sense that it says "hang on is that right mr ipod? can you resend". It will just convert what it is given. I think it is called "signal clipping" if you want to google it, but not entirely sure what the term is. The better shielded cable with better signal will give you a more true and accurate stream of data.

 

That above can totally be wrong however, you judge for yourself.

 

This makes sense to me, though my analogy would be instead of the tires in the Ferrari, you switch the battery cables from copper to copper/silver. Not much of a difference there, eh? Even though I don't think it's an accurate analogy according to what I hear, I do understand that if you have top notch equipment and you are losing data because of a faulty or not properly shielded cable in an interference environment, there will be an audible difference. That difference I have never been able to hear to the point that I can justify spending upwards of $200 on a cable either because it was never there (it just so happened that my normal cables are ok or there's no interference or whatever else) or because my ears are not trained enough to be able to distinguish between losing and not losing these 0's and 1's. There is a possibility that my equipment is not that good either, though I highly doubt that theory. Either way, I believe it comes down to what would make the most difference to the person who listens and what the upgrading priorities are in the chain. Cables are last on my chain. This means that if I have reached nirvana with the headset, amp and dad (in digitally reproduced music), I will then look at cables. By that time we are talking about a $10k investment. That point I have not reached, yet, so if we are saying that the equivalent of a Ferrari in the head-fi world is a $10k system consisting of an amp, a headset and a dac (let's assume your initial stream of music is pristine), then I do agree that the analogy above *may* be accurate. I just have not tested yet. And I will probably never find out :) Unfortunately!

post #1220 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdourado View Post
 

Great explanation! :)

Thank you for taking the time to write this up.

 

Cheers!

You are welcome!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by longbowbbs View Post
 

Good analogy Lillee. I have a Toxic Cable Silver Poison LOD for the HP-P1...However, all files are lossless and I am running the HP-P1 into my JH16's.....

 

Then you probably will hear a difference! Especially if you go with an external amplifier later on and use the HP-P1 as a DAC only. It seems to amplify the differences! haha.

post #1221 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Chronis View Post
 

 

This makes sense to me, though my analogy would be instead of the tires in the Ferrari, you switch the battery cables from copper to copper/silver. Not much of a difference there, eh? Even though I don't think it's an accurate analogy according to what I hear, I do understand that if you have top notch equipment and you are losing data because of a faulty or not properly shielded cable in an interference environment, there will be an audible difference. That difference I have never been able to hear to the point that I can justify spending upwards of $200 on a cable either because it was never there (it just so happened that my normal cables are ok or there's no interference or whatever else) or because my ears are not trained enough to be able to distinguish between losing and not losing these 0's and 1's. There is a possibility that my equipment is not that good either, though I highly doubt that theory. Either way, I believe it comes down to what would make the most difference to the person who listens and what the upgrading priorities are in the chain. Cables are last on my chain. This means that if I have reached nirvana with the headset, amp and dad (in digitally reproduced music), I will then look at cables. By that time we are talking about a $10k investment. That point I have not reached, yet, so if we are saying that the equivalent of a Ferrari in the head-fi world is a $10k system consisting of an amp, a headset and a dac (let's assume your initial stream of music is pristine), then I do agree that the analogy above *may* be accurate. I just have not tested yet. And I will probably never find out :) Unfortunately!

 

I get you entirely and agree with you. I always use the age old and well tested home audio strategy when it comes to cables. Spent approx 10-20% of the price of the entire system on cables (roughly). Having a formula like this or similar hasn't hasn't ever let me down.

 

Definitely agree that digital cable is the last upgrade you should do, focus on all other aspects first, including analogue cables, digital cable last and only if you are looking for that last few percentage points out of your system.

 

PS. Lets not bring up "ferrari's" and "wiring" because they have been known to burst into flames spontaneously so yes, maybe having silver cables would prevent this from happening! haha


Edited by Lillee - 2/13/14 at 2:20pm
post #1222 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillee View Post
 

 

I get you entirely and agree with you. I always use the age old and well tested home audio strategy when it comes to cables. Spent approx 10-20% of the price of the entire system on cables (roughly). Having a formula like this or similar hasn't hasn't ever let me down.

 

Definitely agree that digital cable is the last upgrade you should do, focus on all other aspects first, including analogue cables, digital cable last and only if you are looking for that last few percentage points out of your system.

This is probably the first time in the history of this board that two people have managed to agree on a cable issue within two posts.

post #1223 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Chronis View Post
 

This is probably the first time in the history of this board that two people have managed to agree on a cable issue within two posts.

 

haha so who's up for a beer? :L3000:

post #1224 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillee View Post
 

 

haha so who's up for a beer? :L3000:

It'll be a long way for me to Down Undah, but definitely a trip I want to make one day. 

post #1225 of 1291

 

Its been posted before.....but here is the custom cable I used with my Fostex hpp1 (Qusp piccolino).

 

Sold the Fostex, still have the cable lying around.

 

Did it make a difference over the stock cable, I think so, in style and also sound.

 

But as you say, either you think it makes a difference, or you dont. No need for lengthy debates ;) imho.

 

I like Lillees analogy too.

post #1226 of 1291

Hey Expat,

 

Good to see you're still hanging around! @ANDEROAN wanted to buy my cable but I sold the Fostex with the cable. He may still be interested in buying a cable from you?

post #1227 of 1291

Anyone with the oficial FOstex leather case made a whole in the rear to be able to conect the usb cable for charging without removing the DAC from the case?

How did that work out?

 

Cheers!

post #1228 of 1291

 

Photo isnt so good, and since I sold the Fostex I dont think I have a photo of the Fostex in the case.

 

This is not the official Fostex case.

 

Its the case Lillee recommended here

http://www.head-fi.org/t/597926/cases-for-a-fostex-hp-p1-based-portable-rig

post #1229 of 1291
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpatinJapan View Post




Photo isnt so good, and since I sold the Fostex I dont think I have a photo of the Fostex in the case.

This is not the official Fostex case.

Its the case Lillee recommended here
http://www.head-fi.org/t/597926/cases-for-a-fostex-hp-p1-based-portable-rig

Thanks for sharing the pic. smily_headphones1.gif
If I don't sell my HP-P1 I might get the official case from Amazon and do a cirurgical cut with a scalpel to charge it.

Cheers!
post #1230 of 1291
On another note, and out of curiosity...
Anyone compared the HP-P1 with the Centrance M8?

Cheers!
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