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Maximum Headphone Output, Impedance Range, and Frequency Range for the High-SQ DAPs

post #1 of 12
8/6/11 at 5:18pm
Thread Starter 

I'm doing the research for my next DAP and am trying to find the unit that produces the most power through the headphone output.  The reason I'm looking for this quality is because I have no interest in purchasing a portable amp/DAC and still want to still be able to successfully power most of the IEMs out there.  (I know power is always improved with an amp/DAC, but like I said, I have no interest in purchasing them.)

 

I'm not sure which of the DAPs are known for being very powerful AND still having exceptional SQ.  I only have these specifications for the Cowon J3/S9 and Sansa Fuze/Fuze+/Clip/Clip+ at the moment - as they seem to be the most popular for exceptional SQ.  The Cowon J3/S9 has more power than the Sansa Fuze/Fuze+/Clip/Clip+ according to specifications.

 

Which other powerful players can you guys recommend to me that still have top SQ and what are their specifications for maximum headphone output mW per channel, impedance range, and frequency range as stated below?

 

I will edit this post and throw them on the list as we go along...

 

Cowon J3/S9:

- 29mW + 29mW (16 ohms)
- 16-32 ohms
- 20Hz to 20,000Hz

 

Sansa Fuze/Fuze+/Clip/Clip+:

- 18mW + 18mW (16 ohms)
- 16-32 ohms
- 20Hz to 20,000Hz


Edited by BassInMyFace - 12/1/11 at 2:50pm
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post #2 of 12
8/6/11 at 5:32pm

nationite n2

 

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post #3 of 12
8/6/11 at 7:29pm
Thread Starter 

Any idea about those specifications about it?  I can't seem to find them.

 

Any other players?  Also, based on the given specifications, the Cowon DAPs have more output power than the Sansa DAPs right?

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post #4 of 12
8/7/11 at 1:18am
Power ain't everything.

I'll take 100mW of clean power over 1W of slop.
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post #5 of 12
8/7/11 at 5:49am
Thread Starter 

So then how does one detect power quality?  RMAA tests?

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post #6 of 12
8/7/11 at 10:48am

HM-601, HM-602, HM-801, D2, Sflo-2.

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post #7 of 12
8/7/11 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassInMyFace View Post

So then how does one detect power quality?  RMAA tests?


No. RMAA just tells you total power. There are several things to look at. Mostly linearity. You also don't want a lot of jumps on the impedance curve. The power supply must supply a lot of clean power, too. It cannot run out of power.

Also consider that the listed amount of Watts isn't always accurate. Manufacturers have a large bag of ticks to make numbers look higher than they are in real-world use. They do this because they know the average consumer thinks that Watts equals quality and the more the better.

Not so. Some of the best music I've heard was from a 3W power amp. It made a 45W amp sound fuzzy and imprecise.
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post #8 of 12
8/7/11 at 3:21pm
Thread Starter 

Awesome insight Uncle E!  I appreciate your help a lot.  So then between the two players listed above, statistcally at least according to the RMAA comparisons, the Sansa players should have both more power and higher SQ?  Their graphs are definitely more linear if I'm interpreting the impedance correctly.

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post #9 of 12
8/7/11 at 6:24pm
RMAA, as in Right Mark Audio Analyzer doesn't tell you anything about power.
It gives you the how much harmonic distortion a device outputs, the level of noise a device has, if there are any channel imbalance issues...
What it doesn't tell you is anything about power, impedance, slew rate...

And and the biggest caveat I think, is the lack of a reference level (which is unavoidable since it was created to be used on multiple computers), this makes RMAA testing results difficult to compare. RMAA done by X and done by Y can lead to very different results depending on the parameters they entered. RMAA does bring a lot of useful information, if you know how the tester set their gear.

That said, if Cowon and Sansa were honest about their power output, ie. they can actually deliver the power thy claim cleanly, it should be enough for all portable headphones. Most headphones have a sensitivity above 90 dB/mW which means 102 dB SPL with 16 ohms. With portable headphones and IEMs, 100 to 120 dB/mW and impedance ranging from 16 to 32 ohms are expected, that's at least 112 dB SPL (to 132) at 16 mW. Plenty enough of power for portable headphones.
Edited by khaos974 - 8/7/11 at 6:36pm
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post #10 of 12
8/7/11 at 8:31pm
Thread Starter 

Thank you much for your input as well khaos.  I understand what you're getting at with that.  If both are capable of powering basically all IEMs, I guess my deciding factor should not be based on which has more power but SQ.

 

The one issue that plagues me is the Cowon bass roll-off.  I understand some people say it is a problem, while others say it isn't.  Being an ex-basshead and someone that still enjoys the lower end of the spectrum, I guess that definitely makes me want to lean towards one of the Sansa series...


Edited by BassInMyFace - 8/7/11 at 8:34pm
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post #11 of 12
8/7/11 at 9:10pm

The Sansa Fuze(v1) has most bass output from HP jack and it play loud.

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post #12 of 12
8/8/11 at 1:56pm
Thread Starter 

Good to know.  How does the Fuze compare to the Fuze+/Clip/Clip+ in power and SQ?

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