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Is it a waste to play HDCD/K2HD/LPCD on a SACD Player?

post #1 of 18
8/5/11 at 10:42pm
Thread Starter 

When I bought CDs, I often didn't look at what format they're in, especially since the price difference between them aren't great.

Now I want to buy a CD Player, and I'm confused if K2HD/HDCD/XRCD/LPCD requires a SACD Player to get the most out of them?

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post #2 of 18
8/6/11 at 12:56am
No, SACD players are for SACD, which is a different format from those. All SACD players read CDs, K2HD, and LPCD. HDCD, however, requires a special chip or two. Not all SACD players read it; mine doesn't.

Unless you want to play SACD (I sure do like it) all you need is a CD player that can read HDCD.
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post #3 of 18
8/6/11 at 9:21am
Thread Starter 

Oh thanks!

But what makes SACD players worth buying than CD players?

I mean, isn't it always better to get something with an extra function?

 

Or does SACD players do much worse than CD players in playing CDs?

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post #4 of 18
8/6/11 at 2:49pm
SACD is a different format from CD. They're the same size and some have a hybrid layer with a CD recording, but SACD players have a separate laser specifically for reading SACD. They also have a conventional laser for reading CDs.

The Wikipedia article on SACD is good if you want technical details. Simply put, however, SACD is high-resolution digital. CDs are 16 bit/44.1kHz and SACD is 24 bit/96kHz. SACD has 64 times the resolution of a CD. If you're into jazz or classical, then SACD is a good way to go. There are about 7,000 SACD recordings and probably 90% are classical and another 7%-8% are jazz. I always buy them over CDs or LPs.

SACD is a niche product, but has done well enough to stay alive for more than ten years. It picked up where reel-to-reel left off - for people who want archival-quality recordings. (Reel is awesome, too, but player maintenance is an expensive pain and the tapes deteriorate over the years.)

SACD players are often terrific for CD playback. I play CDs all the time and think my player sounds great with either.

SACD players won't upsample CDs. If you want to do that, however, a number of DACs will upsample CDs.
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post #5 of 18
8/6/11 at 8:35pm
Thread Starter 

Thank you so much :)
I read the technical things on the SACD and how a normal CD will only read the CD layer and not the SACD layer (DSD layer or something?)

 

So I think I'll be getting a basic marantz sacd player to go with my yulong d100 dac? Would that work?

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post #6 of 18
8/6/11 at 9:01pm
Thread Starter 

Oh In hong kong they have canto-pop in SACD format too...

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post #7 of 18
8/6/11 at 10:20pm


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post
CDs are 16 bit/44.1kHz and SACD is 24 bit/96kHz. SACD has 64 times the resolution of a CD. If you're into jazz or classical, then SACD is a good way to go. There are about 7,000 SACD recordings and probably 90% are classical and another 7%-8% are jazz. I always buy them over CDs or LPs.

SACD is a niche product, but has done well enough to stay alive for more than ten years. It picked up where reel-to-reel left off - for people who want archival-quality recordings. (Reel is awesome, too, but player maintenance is an expensive pain and the tapes deteriorate over the years.)

SACD players are often terrific for CD playback. I play CDs all the time and think my player sounds great with either.

SACD players won't upsample CDs. If you want to do that, however, a number of DACs will upsample CDs.


Not to be pedantic, but SACD and CDs use different formats for encoding. CD is PCM and SACD is DSD. DSD is 1bit and uses the large bandwidth to push the quantinzation noise far into the inaudible audio spectrum. So PCM to DSD is apples to oranges. 

 

As far as quality goes, the wiki page you suggested the OP read ends concludes by talking about two different sessions where professionals couldn't successfully distinguish playback between SACD and RedBook. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xymordos View Post

Thank you so much :)
I read the technical things on the SACD and how a normal CD will only read the CD layer and not the SACD layer (DSD layer or something?)

 

So I think I'll be getting a basic marantz sacd player to go with my yulong d100 dac? Would that work?

I haven't kept up recent SACD events, but i'm pretty sure no retail SACD player has an L/PCM digital out. You'd also need a dac that could then either:

A) Convert DSD to an analog signal or;

B) Have a DSD to PCM converter.

 

Don't quote me on that though.
 

 

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post #8 of 18
8/6/11 at 10:52pm
Thread Starter 

That just got more confusing...

So lets say, I got a Marantz SACD Player, and connected its digital out via coaxial into Yulong D100 DAC's Coaxial input. Would it even function?

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post #9 of 18
8/6/11 at 11:07pm

K2HD?? LPCD??

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post #10 of 18
8/6/11 at 11:08pm

Send Mr. You Long (yes that's his name) an email and ask him?

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post #11 of 18
8/6/11 at 11:18pm
Thread Starter 

Yeah I just did, hopefully he replies soon :P

I know a CD player would work because when I bought the D100, the shop person tested the machine with a CD Player

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post #12 of 18
8/6/11 at 11:52pm

You bought the D100......... in a shop?

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post #13 of 18
8/7/11 at 12:49am
Yes, I know there are other technical differences between CD and SACD. I was trying to give a basic idea of the differences.

And yes, I've heard all the arguments about audibility. I buy SACD for two reasons:

1. A SACD is practically a guarantee of quality recording and mastering. Well worth paying for.

2. I want to use my money to encourage a high-end format with excellent recordings. Most studios make crap recordings of crap music and then try to market it to people who illegally download it, anyway. This is my little way of saying, 'you have consumers who will pay extra for something of quality. Why don't you pay more attention to someone who actually buys music?'

To answer one question that came up, a SACD layer cannot be output to a DAC. SACD players will downconvert the material to CD quality. DRM is the reason. And no discussion of defeating DRM, etc. here. It's not allowed under the TOS.
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post #14 of 18
8/7/11 at 4:05am
Thread Starter 

Oh so if I connect to DAC, the quality will be reduced. If I use analogue out it'll still work?

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post #15 of 18
8/7/11 at 9:51am



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xymordos View Post

Oh so if I connect to DAC, the quality will be reduced. If I use analogue out it'll still work?



RE the Marantz only. If you play an SACD that has only the SACD layer when you connect the digital output to a DAC you will hear nothing, no signal will be output. If you play an SACD that has a CD layer you can get the CD layer sound via the digital output if you select it. Comparisons of layers are misleading as the mastering is often different. The analog output can however be from either layer as you choose and you just connect that to any amplifier line-level input.

 

Some players will give you PCM output from SACD but only via HDMI and with internal conversion. It is not legal to output SACD digital signals via the Toslink or Coax type connections.

 

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