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REVIEW: Ray Samuels Audio Dark Star solid state headphone amplifier - Page 20

post #286 of 372
Hope you get what you like! My DS is on its way and I look forward to hearing it. That said, if you have any questions on EF6, please ask. The HE6 headphone as anyone will tell you really needs like 5w to make it fly, and fly it does. It is excellent sound / value even with a lesser amp. The EF6 easily powers it well and unless you are nth degree technically discerning (and I respect people here with ears and eye for circuitry better than mine, and I have taken their word too in ordering a DS) , I think EF6 is my best buy plus I have had excellent support from Hifiman themselves (I have no commercial interests).
post #287 of 372
HE-6 requires 20mW to reach 95dB, 632mW to reach 105dB and 20W to reach 120dB. Just how loud are you listening? Hearing damage starts at 85dB.
post #288 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

HE-6 requires 20mW to reach 95dB, 632mW to reach 105dB and 20W to reach 120dB. Just how loud are you listening? Hearing damage starts at 85dB.

 

 

I'm a bit surprised by this post. Power provides more than volume...

post #289 of 372

In response to Canadian411's comment on power needs for HE-6, and Maxvla's technical facts, I can only say myself that I listen at 11 o"clock position on my EF6 with my HE-6 and that's comfy for most things for me in jazz/classical using HM901 as input.

 

As to the actual power hungry needs of the HE-6 I thought it needs some 2-5W to get its juices flowing, and certainly more power is better for this headphone (aka DS) though I am talking power for better overall sound quality as musicman59 and others have already commented on positively, not just power for power's sake (sure, deafness) :)

post #290 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperpwc View Post
 

 

 

I'm a bit surprised by this post. Power provides more than volume...

 

+1 

post #291 of 372
Thread Starter 
There seems to be a consistent lack of understanding, or at least recognition, of the difference between PEAK and MEAN power delivery.

Yes, if you listened to music at 105 dB mean, for extended periods, you would damage your hearing. But for hearing to be damaged by high SPLs, one must consider both the intensity AND duration of the sound. There is nothing dangerous about momentary peaks of 105 or even 110 dB if the mean level is below 85 dB.

So if you listen only to some types of highly compressed rock or pop where the peak exceeds the mean by only a few dB, yes, you may need only 300-400 mW for the HE-6. If you listen to rock with more dynamic range, or many types of jazz or classical music, you easily need several watts at least to have undistorted peaks, and can still be listening at safe mean levels.
post #292 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

There seems to be a consistent lack of understanding, or at least recognition, of the difference between PEAK and MEAN power delivery.

Yes, if you listened to music at 105 dB mean, for extended periods, you would damage your hearing. But for hearing to be damaged by high SPLs, one must consider both the intensity AND duration of the sound. There is nothing dangerous about momentary peaks of 105 or even 110 dB if the mean level is below 85 dB.

So if you listen only to some types of highly compressed rock or pop where the peak exceeds the mean by only a few dB, yes, you may need only 300-400 mW for the HE-6. If you listen to rock with more dynamic range, or many types of jazz or classical music, you easily need several watts at least to have undistorted peaks, and can still be listening at safe mean levels.

Which might be the reason why climaxes in Mahler's symphonies distort with my Hifiman EF-6 using the HE-6, but they don't with the Darkstar; a couple more watts per channel really helps tighten up those climaxes.  Yes, the EF-6 won't distort with music with a rather narrow range of dynamics...but increase the dynamic range and things will get dicey rather quickly, especially at louder volumes.  The Darkstar experiences no such problems with the HE-6...handles it with aplomb, as do the vintage receiver amps.

post #293 of 372
Still, 105dB is accomplished with only .6W. Needing 5W "just to get the juices flowing" is a gross exaggeration and is why everyone laughs at most of the HE-6 owners, and makes jokes about them needing direct hookups to nuclear reactors and such.
post #294 of 372
Thread Starter 
And for 108 db you need 1.2 W, and for 111 dB you need 2.4 w, and for 114 W you need 5 W. And that's with NO headroom. Again, 115 dB peaks for classical is not insane at all.

Just sayin.
post #295 of 372
115 dB to begin enjoying listening? I was under the impression this 2-5W was what was needed to "get the juices flowing". With that sort of statement, the unsaid portion is that even more is necessary to get the full effect. So what is the full effect if 5W is just getting started? 120dB, 125dB, higher?
post #296 of 372
Thread Starter 
Well I personally don't recall ever saying anything like you're quoting. I'm simply showing the math. Again, 115 dB peaks for large scale classical music isn't an unrealistic thing to want.
post #297 of 372
You didn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nishy View Post

In response to Canadian411's comment on power needs for HE-6, and Maxvla's technical facts, I can only say myself that I listen at 11 o"clock position on my EF6 with my HE-6 and that's comfy for most things for me in jazz/classical using HM901 as input.

As to the actual power hungry needs of the HE-6 I thought it needs some 2-5W to get its juices flowing, and certainly more power is better for this headphone (aka DS) though I am talking power for better overall sound quality as musicman59 and others have already commented on positively, not just power for power's sake (sure, deafness) smily_headphones1.gif
post #298 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

115 dB to begin enjoying listening? I was under the impression this 2-5W was what was needed to "get the juices flowing". With that sort of statement, the unsaid portion is that even more is necessary to get the full effect. So what is the full effect if 5W is just getting started? 120dB, 125dB, higher?

Don't listen to Mahler or Bruckner...as long as you don't , the EF-6 is fine.

post #299 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

And for 108 db you need 1.2 W, and for 111 dB you need 2.4 w, and for 114 W you need 5 W. And that's with NO headroom. Again, 115 dB peaks for classical is not insane at all.

Just sayin.


You mean 114 dB -> 5 W ?

So technically WA6SE, GXMk2, are not qualified right ? Dang, I just need one amp for all. :)

post #300 of 372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post

Well I personally don't recall ever saying anything like you're quoting. I'm simply showing the math. Again, 115 dB peaks for large scale classical music isn't an unrealistic thing to want.

Your math is a little off. I take it that you're listening at home where the noisefloor is 30-40db. Say 40. The dynamic range of classical recordings tops out at 60db. We're up to 100db. Let's throw in 10db for headroom and listening to the point where you're clearly hearing the noise floor of the recording. We're up to 110db, on peaks, max. Of course it's all up to your preference and if you like 120db peaks that's up to you. But let's not veil that preference by claiming that it's a necessity to get the most out of the recording.

 

*Note that I've excluded dynamic compression of the headphone itself and the fact that most peaks are brief and that amps have headroom above their maximum ratings to accommodate such brief surges.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooperpwc View Post
 

 

 

I'm a bit surprised by this post. Power provides more than volume...


Do tell...

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