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High-end or not high-end?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

 I've always associated high-end with luxury, except in the  audio category where I've come to understand it as music reproduction products which simply bring about the most satisfying experiences. Recently, for me, one such  product standing out as being quite satisfying is the Creative Sound Blaster X-FI HD, which I use, for the most part, to get computer audio to my  HT via USB to S/PDIF conversion. Using this product as mentioned,  I cannot now distinguish 256k in my iTunes library from SACD direct when played over my HT, in stereo mode with bass management.  This makes me think my very spartan plastic cased under $80.00 X-FI HD is indeed high-end. What say you?


Edited by sterling1 - 7/23/11 at 5:15am
post #2 of 29

I don't understand, you say that the X-FI HD is high end because you can't distinguish 256k from your sacd's?

post #3 of 29
Thread Starter 

Yes, I'm using this component as a USB to S/PDIF converter, sending tunes from my iTunes library to my HT. This library has recordings from 256k to 24/96. Using the X-FI HD,   material on the computer sounds as good as SACD, when enjoyed through my HT speakers. So, if high end is synonymous with a most satisfying music listening experience, that's exactly what I'm saying. 


Edited by sterling1 - 7/23/11 at 5:28am
post #4 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by sterling1 View Post

 I've always associated high-end with luxury, except in the  audio category where I've come to understand it as music reproduction products which simply bring about the most satisfying experiences. Recently, for me, one such  product standing out as being quite satisfying is the Creative Sound Blaster X-FI HD, which I use, for the most part, to get computer audio to my  HT via USB to S/PDIF conversion. Using this product as mentioned,  I cannot now distinguish 256k in my iTunes library from SACD direct when played over my HT, in stereo mode with bass management.  This makes me think my very spartan plastic cased under $80.00 X-FI HD is indeed high-end. What say you?


I say if it pleases you and you are content, look no further.  There are most certainly gains to be had using higher quality transports, DACs, amps, etc. but it can take some time for your ears to get accustomed to a desired tonal balance that showcases the best of all frequencies.

 

Some want a natural tone, some want a (perceived) neutral tone, some want exaggerated bass, some want exaggerated treble, and some will tell you they want to hear the recording exactly as it was intended even though they have no idea what was intended since they weren't present when the album was being mastered nor do they know all the equipment that was used to master said album.

 

I want to hear all the details present on the recording, yet still preserve a natural tone and as close to an ideal neutral balance of all frequencies from 20Hz to the upper range of my hearing limit which is between 18-20kHz plus a few dB over flat at those upper frequencies depending on whether it's my left or right ear (my right ear doesn't hear quite as extended as my left).  So if someone tells you they can hear 20Hz - 20kHz, that statement in itself means nothing.  Are they listening to a full scale tone signal at those frequencies at 80dB, 90dB, 100dB or more, and are certain frequencies positively attenuated by a certain amount in order for them to hear them, and can they hear certain frequencies (specifically between 16kHz and 20kHz with negative attenuation below the baseline dB for the lower frequencies)?  Also, you won't find any musical information at 20kHz; it will just be noise, unless it was intentionally generated by a synthesizer, and for what purpose I don't know unless they were making music for dogs or other animals that can hear into the ultrasonic range.  It's very unlikely that you would detect any harmonics, which could affect HRTF spatial cues, at that frequency range.

post #5 of 29

i'm pefectly ok with ipodpj on this one, 

 

but I must say that your question was (if I I understood it correctly) is it high end or not? 

 

to me high end means Hi-fi, Hi-fi means high fidelity and high fidelity means fidelity to source. 

 

the source in this case is your sacd's or mp3's. if you can usually distinguish the first from the second, 

 

and now you can't then your equipment isn't high end. 

 

but you have a really interesting point of view, does high-end mean we get closer an closer to the 0% distortion level that we'll never touch?

 

or does it mean, we get closer to a more satisfying experience? 

 

there isn't one good answer to this question...

 

 

post #6 of 29

folks this is going to the computer audio area, please post this stuff there.

 

regards

JP

post #7 of 29

Thats two from two, sterling1 - I think its pretty clear where your soundcard belongs.

post #8 of 29
Thread Starter 

About a year ago I came out of an electronics comma, that's to say the HT I installed about 10 years ago had been sitting idle, as well as. my computer. But, about a year ago, one of my sons introduced me to iTunes; and, I came out of my comma, thinking that getting music from iTunes to the HT would be a convenient way to get back into Hi-FI, which I had abandoned  about 10 years ago for more interesting pursuits. At any rate, connecting the laptop to HT with analog RCA cables did not have the outcome I expected. Dropouts in sound and occasional pops caused me to look for an interface which promised audiophile performance. Research on the subject ended with the purchase of a Creative Sound Blaster X-FI HD. Now, no dropouts, pops, etc. to compromise the illusion.  And, with this interface passing information upsampled to 24/96 from Windows 7,  I cannot now reliably distinguish whether I'm listening to SACD direct or  music stored on my laptop. It seems I now have it all and want for nothing. I have unbelievable convenience and quality; and, I can listen to music for hours, when I have the luxury of time to listen to music for hours.

 

 With such an outcome, and since I believe most folks appraise all their components and connections as being somewhere on a scale from low-end to high-end, and considering that the X-FI HD permits me to hear audio from the computer with the fidelity I've come to expect from SACD direct, could not this inexpensive interface be considered high-end?

 

BTW, my other components consist of a Sony TA-E9000ES pre/pro, DVP-S9000ES SACD player, TA-N9000ES amp, TA-N80ES amp, TA-P9000ES mulit-channel preamp, PS-4750 turntable with Shure V15 vmr and PCM-7010F DAT recorders. The speakers on my front end are JBL L100t3's with JBL B380 sub.


Edited by sterling1 - 7/24/11 at 5:46am
post #9 of 29
Thread Starter 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post

Thats two from two, sterling1 - I think its pretty clear where your soundcard belongs.


Well, if it's so clear to you then why not provide details?  Can a sound-card be high-end?  You obviously, think my sound-card is not high-end, but why? I'm  interested in what audiophiles like you think about why something qualifies as high-end while something else does not.
 

 


Edited by sterling1 - 7/24/11 at 6:20am
post #10 of 29

I'm not an audiophile, I'm a music lover, but you have thrown enough money at kit to know that people who spend that kind of money dont consider sub-$100 (or sub $1000 ...) toys to be 'high end' any more than Porsche owners consider something like a Subaru WRX to be a 'performance sports car', regardless of 0-60 times. Semantics or no, your soundcard isnt 'high end'.

post #11 of 29
Thread Starter 

So, it's not high end because it's  not expensive, is that right?  Surely, you have some criteria for high end other than a high price.Perhaps, you'd consider the product's effect on  the listening experience.  Also, what does a genre of cars have to do with computer audio? There is no analogy or metaphor there, but nice try. One more  thing, I don't throw my money around. I have no money to throw around. I am frugal with what little money I have for luxury's like audio equipment. But, buying the X-FI HD was little risk. And since, using it as an interface for USB to S/PDIF, I cannot now distinguish the music stored in my iTunes library with SACD direct; I'd say that spending more for something else was  not necessary. At any rate, the X-FI HD has proven to be  the audiophile grade product it  was  advertised to be. And whether it's viewed as high end or not,  I am very happy with the unexpected high end sound I'm now getting from  my computer for an equally unexpected low cost.


Edited by sterling1 - 7/26/11 at 6:13pm
post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post




...and some will tell you they want to hear the recording exactly as it was intended even though they have no idea what was intended since they weren't present when the album was being mastered nor do they know all the equipment that was used to master said album.

 

 


This is brilliant!

 

post #13 of 29
Thread Starter 

My  desire was not to "hear the recording exactly as intended" but just to hear audio stored on my computer without pops and dropouts. The X-FI HD solved that problem, as well as enhanced my pleasure, making my computer audio, when enjoyed from my HT, indistinguishable from SACD direct  from my HT. Now that's what I call brilliant, an inexpensive product that can get the job done and more.

post #14 of 29

High end and enjoyable is very different IMO, personally, I think that high end equipment is supposed to be very precise and revealing and make bad recordings sound like crap, where as more enjoyable gear covers up the flaws inside the recordings and make the listening experience more enjoyable. I've seen in a video that some dj is recording a song with a pair of sony 7506. Those cans are in no way considered high end (they are not supposed to be, given their price tag). That just shows that high end is not always better sounding. Although high end cans are perfect for super high quality recordings for sure. atsmile.gif

post #15 of 29
Thread Starter 

I appreciate your comment, but, after all, since greater enjoyment is the  desired outcome; and, since  the relationship here is cause and effect, the design of the X-FI HD contributing to better fidelity, the question, is the X-FI HD high-end, seems logical as  presented.  BTW,  the Miles Davis recording Kind Of Blue, although artistically awesome, I find too harsh to listen to without extreme equalization mustered from my high-end equipment. Without equalization, the trumpet sounds to me like fingernails on a chalkboard. So,  I think I understand your comment. Thing is, I can listen to this album on my low-fi getto buster and still cringe; and, listening from that player  EQ is not possible. 


Edited by sterling1 - 7/27/11 at 12:36pm
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