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Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide - Page 475

post #7111 of 7684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oskari View Post


He'll still have the date code to crack...

 

You ain't kiddin', Oskari...the little beauties arrived today :p. M6 mean anything to you? And there's an X with the Z...

 

Whatever, they are - of course! - the real thing. And what can I say?...for once I'm (almost) speechless - but I'll give it a try lol!

 

Any misgivings I might have had re losing some of the Chatham's 'air' are now totally gone...these tubes have definitely kicked the (wonderful) Chathams out of the marital bed...and those shameless C3GSs have not complained one bit - infidelity reigns even in tube land! :tongue_smile:. Even with just a few hours' burn-in, everything that is said about them is NOT hype. FINAL proof (if it were needed!) that tubes are NOT 'just' a standardised vehicle for signal gain, having minimal effect on the overall sound. And given they are still electrically a 6AS7G, the difference between them and, say, your standard RCA is quite extreme - I use the term advisedly...

 

Having just listened to what I now use as my main test for 'fullness', impact/excitement and handling of dynamic range - 'The Battle', from the original music soundtrack of 'Gladiator', which must be up there with almost anything Wagner churned out, and a monument to Hans Zimmer and the sound engineer - I firmly believe that THIS time (sorry gibosi!) I just might have reached my own nirvana...for the nth time!! I know something else might be brought to the table by an alternative to the C3GS, but with my couple now making such "beautiful music" together - not to mention the aesthetic factor - I am surely going to be VERY happy for a VERY long time...

 

And so...my ULTIMATE set-up looks just so :...

 

 

ps. And what of the used curved-bottomed-base GECs?...With just one good one (which seems to be wanting to develop a slight hum) to three dead ones, unfortunately things are not looking too rosy - I suspect that these tubes are not particularly long-lived ones...more's the pity! But who knows, I just might get real lucky! Thank heavens I splashed out on this NOS pair - hopefully they should see me out, lol!

 

Cheers and

 

Happy rolling everyone...


Edited by hypnos1 - 8/7/14 at 12:29pm
post #7112 of 7684
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollDragon View Post

Hey @mordy
, @gibosi
 and @MMMan


Thanks for all the opinions on Sound Stage guys, I realize it was really a question for the "Sound Science Asylum" here on Head-Fi but I don't venture into that wasteland too often... wink.gif

All my readings and understandings are that a properly working amplifier with minimal distortion and a flat response curve has absolutely zero effect on the perceived sound stage, so I was just trying to wrap my head around how a driver tube of one type for example from different years or manufacturers could even affect it? Since the tube is just a simple signal amplifier that cannot do any type of processing except increase the signal level of the audio sine wave. If all of the example tubes are manufactured to the proper electrical specification for that model, then they should in theory all have the exact same electrical characteristics.

That said, I find it hard to believe a series of identical tubes could alter the sound stage of one piece of music.  
No big deal just curious.
beerchug.gif

None of our amps are transparent and our tubes are non- linear transformers. We change tubes in an imperfect system and create unexpected differences across the tonal range. Plus, we are all using different tubes for L and R. Leads to large perceived differences.... In sound.

G
post #7113 of 7684
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypnos1 View Post

 

You ain't kiddin', Oskari...the little beauties arrived today :p. M6 mean anything to you? And there's an X with the Z...

 

Yes, that's probably the date code but it should consist of two letters. M is 1956. The second letter tells the month. You can read all about it in here (including the X).

 

post #7114 of 7684

Thanks @hypnos1 and @MMMan

 

Many a great possibility in this wonderful hobby of audio.

:beerchug:

post #7115 of 7684

hi forum,

 

since the beginning my loudness poti(LDMKIII) has been scratching and it has gotten worse so that as i dialed in to turn up the volume a channel dropped out so i swished the dial back and forth until everything seamed fine. I hope it doesn't get worse with all the years but i guess i might find someone then to solder in a new potentiometer and some better parts.Is there a way of fixing this issue with a contact spray or something else?

 

sorry for offtopic.

post #7116 of 7684
Quote:
Originally Posted by superdux View Post
 

hi forum,

 

since the beginning my loudness poti(LDMKIII) has been scratching and it has gotten worse so that as i dialed in to turn up the volume a channel dropped out so i swished the dial back and forth until everything seamed fine. I hope it doesn't get worse with all the years but i guess i might find someone then to solder in a new potentiometer and some better parts.Is there a way of fixing this issue with a contact spray or something else?

 

sorry for offtopic.

I would try a contact cleaner .just spray it in the whole in your pot and turn the knob 10 - 20 times worked for me .

post #7117 of 7684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oskari View Post
 

 

Yes, that's probably the date code but it should consist of two letters. M is 1956. The second letter tells the month. You can read all about it in here (including the X).

 

 

Thanks, Oskari...on closer inspection that '6' must be a 'G' - they're not too clear lol! (Or are my eyes on the way out? :redface:).

 

Thanks also for the gentle letting-down re the 'X'...and its meaning! I am not too disheartened though, because it would appear to me anyway that it simply didn't reach the ULTRA high spec required, but still above the 'commercial' grade (or am I deluding myself? :rolleyes:).

 

Whatever, with further burn-in and a good cross-section of my test music assailing my ears, they are delivering a leap in sound above even the 6SN7/7N7 to a degree over and above that of the C3G compared to the premium 6DJ8s...no mean feat, to be sure! The level of clarity, smooth richness, frequency range, 'holographic' soundstage is truly astounding. Not to mention (amongst other qualities) the most extended note decay I have ever come across...DELICIOUS!.. How on earth such a difference can be the result of just another 'simple vehicle for signal gain' defies any arguments/explanations I have yet heard, lol...

 

Cheers, from somewhere up in the stratosphere...:D

post #7118 of 7684

Hi,

 

Presently burning in the Sylvania 5687 driver tube since I suspect that it is NOS. So far I have some 15 hours on it. With the Chatham 6080 power tubes I must say that this is the best sound I have experienced with the LD MKIII so far. Everything sounds just right with great clarity and super bass and treble and very musical. This combination manages to be extremely detailed without being analytical or etched. I can pick out an instrument in the background and focus on it and follow it throughout the recording. Micro details abound.

 

There is a certain glow and warmth to the music and everything sounds better. At the same time this setup is very sensitive to the recording quality, and I may have to adjust the tone controls according to the recording.. This tube complement is not "ruthlessly revealing" in that it highlights flaws in the recordings, but it does show them.

 

Re the old argument about how much the power tubes add to the sound: In the LD MKIII manual it states: "The pre-amplification signal in the Little Dot MK III includes both the driver and power tubes.."

 

I have the ability to shut off the heaters to the power tubes while they are mounted in place. Doing so lowers the volume so that the headphone jack on the LD puts out too low a signal to be usable, but my receiver can use it. I just need to turn up the volume two-three steps to get satisfactory volume. I don't fully understand what is happening, but it seems to me that I running my system on just one dual triode. The sound is good, but not fleshed out, and the bass and slam is lacking compared to when the power tubes are being activated. Think grape juice vs wine, or better yet, unsweetened grape juice vs your favorite wine.

 

Now, depending on who you are, you could say that there definitively is a difference, or, in my case, an enormous difference.  Somebody wrote that the power tubes contribute 15% to the sound, but I find it hard to quantify it. But I do know that there is no question what I prefer between a glass of grape juice or a glass of Cabernet Sauvignon.

 

Hard to tear yourself away from this sweet sounding system........

post #7119 of 7684
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordy View Post
 

Hi,

 

Presently burning in the Sylvania 5687 driver tube since I suspect that it is NOS. So far I have some 15 hours on it. With the Chatham 6080 power tubes I must say that this is the best sound I have experienced with the LD MKIII so far. Everything sounds just right with great clarity and super bass and treble and very musical. This combination manages to be extremely detailed without being analytical or etched. I can pick out an instrument in the background and focus on it and follow it throughout the recording. Micro details abound.

 

There is a certain glow and warmth to the music and everything sounds better. At the same time this setup is very sensitive to the recording quality, and I may have to adjust the tone controls according to the recording.. This tube complement is not "ruthlessly revealing" in that it highlights flaws in the recordings, but it does show them.

 

Re the old argument about how much the power tubes add to the sound: In the LD MKIII manual it states: "The pre-amplification signal in the Little Dot MK III includes both the driver and power tubes.."

 

I have the ability to shut off the heaters to the power tubes while they are mounted in place. Doing so lowers the volume so that the headphone jack on the LD puts out too low a signal to be usable, but my receiver can use it. I just need to turn up the volume two-three steps to get satisfactory volume. I don't fully understand what is happening, but it seems to me that I running my system on just one dual triode. The sound is good, but not fleshed out, and the bass and slam is lacking compared to when the power tubes are being activated. Think grape juice vs wine, or better yet, unsweetened grape juice vs your favorite wine.

 

Now, depending on who you are, you could say that there definitively is a difference, or, in my case, an enormous difference.  Somebody wrote that the power tubes contribute 15% to the sound, but I find it hard to quantify it. But I do know that there is no question what I prefer between a glass of grape juice or a glass of Cabernet Sauvignon.

 

Hard to tear yourself away from this sweet sounding system........

 

Hi mordy.

 

'Power' tubes certainly do rule, OK!...so long as they're fed by really nice drivers lol -  and it looks like you and gibosi are using some pretty good'uns. Am sorely tempted to have a go, but now that I am also in 'sound nirvana', and I like the look, methinks that will have to be very much a 'backburner' job...(???!).

 

Happy listening.

post #7120 of 7684
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordy View Post
 

Presently burning in the Sylvania 5687 driver tube since I suspect that it is NOS. So far I have some 15 hours on it. With the Chatham 6080 power tubes I must say that this is the best sound I have experienced with the LD MKIII so far. Everything sounds just right with great clarity and super bass and treble and very musical. This combination manages to be extremely detailed without being analytical or etched. I can pick out an instrument in the background and focus on it and follow it throughout the recording. Micro details abound.

 

There is a certain glow and warmth to the music and everything sounds better. At the same time this setup is very sensitive to the recording quality, and I may have to adjust the tone controls according to the recording.. This tube complement is not "ruthlessly revealing" in that it highlights flaws in the recordings, but it does show them.

 

To my (old and worn out) ears, the Sylvania 5687WA is almost indistinguishable from the 1940's Sylvania 6SN7W and the sub-miniature Sylvania 7963. And as the Sylvania 5687 is cheap and plentiful, anyone who is willing to cobble together an external socket and heater power supply can experience one of the best tubes Sylvania ever made for very little money. And in my opinion, these three Sylvania tubes are among the very best ever made by any manufacturer.

 

edit: typo


Edited by gibosi - 8/8/14 at 9:09pm
post #7121 of 7684

have you tried a box plate E182CC, a very different style of presentation......? and plug and play for a 5687.

post #7122 of 7684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic Rhodes View Post
 

have you tried a box plate E182CC, a very different style of presentation......? and plug and play for a 5687.

 

I have tried a 1962 Heerlen-made E182CC. And yes, it has a very different style of presentation. It strongly reminds me of my 1960 Heerlen-made E188CC, with that rather bright and lush mid-range, With my HD700's, I prefer the slightly laid-back Sylvania mid range. But of course, this is my opinion, my ears and my gear. :)

post #7123 of 7684

partner it with another phone and it is another tube that will find much favour. Holland, UK and US all made excellent box plate examples.

post #7124 of 7684

I hear you... I would really like to hear the E182CC through a pair of HD650's.....

post #7125 of 7684
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypnos1 View Post

 

Thanks also for the gentle letting-down re the 'X'...and its meaning! I am not too disheartened though, because it would appear to me anyway that it simply didn't reach the ULTRA high spec required, but still above the 'commercial' grade (or am I deluding myself? :rolleyes:).

 

You are perhaps reading too much into it. I think it means that the valve bypassed the formal qualification approval process, perhaps they didn't even have test specifications for the type at the time.

 

Quote:
When approval has been given for the use of a valve in MDAP equipment by the Director of Electronics Research and Development (Air) but that valve has not received Qualification Approval the letter X shall be marked on the valve as if it were the appropriate Qualification Approval letter.

 

Any other interpretations?

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