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Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide - Page 391

post #5851 of 10501

How about the 6336 as a power tube? This is essentially two 6AS7s in one bottle, and thus requires 5 amps of heater current. :)

 

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0287.htm

post #5852 of 10501
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibosi View Post
 

In my mailbox today I discovered a pair of C3g having just arrived in the US after running away from the UK. The story they are telling is that back in the UK, they were feeling rather unloved and neglected as their owner was spending all his time with the more hoity-toity C3gs, and so they decided to make their escape. And I am very glad they did! lol :)

 

I fired them up, and yes, everything that hypnos1 has said about them is true. These are top-tier tubes. I've only had a little time with them, but the first thing I notice is that they are very clear and very musical, and similar to mab1376, I notice they are bit more forward (going only by memory) than my reference Sylvanias. This is in no way a negative. One might say that the Sylvania 6NS7W and the Siemens C3g are both top tier, but the C3g is just a "lighter shade of gray."

 

I have them plugged into my Vectors, primarily because this will make it much easier to compare them to double triodes. Of course, this essentially negates all the silver hypnos1 put into them. (And I think I can hear his groans all the way from Britain! lol) But it also creates a more even playing field for comparison purposes. Both the double triodes and the C3g are routed through the Vectors, which handicaps both equally, and if anything, the C3g with a shorter wire run to the LD, is perhaps handicapped less.

 

Even though I knew that the C3g is a Loctal, I was still shocked to see just how big these tubes are. As you can see these are not little. :)

 

 

Yo gibosi...lovely (surprisingly large!) tubes...glad you like 'em...

 

As for the forward nature, I have found that it is all down to the power stage...as I mentioned some while back - and now corroborated by mordy - the old-established wisdom re the power tubes not having a great impact on the final result is just not correct.

In my case, the differences between 6N30P-DR; Psvane CV181-T II and Sylvania VT231 are not just minimal - especially between the last two...the VT231 is much more forward, quite a different sound. At first I thought it may just be a question of strange synergy between my C3gSs and the followers, but mordy's findings with different 6SN7s has confirmed my suspicions...power tubes are just as important as the drivers in our LDs. So more research is definitely needed in this area...perhaps tubes a little less risky than those (6AS7) I shall be trying in the weeks to come! The LD journey is obviously not over yet!!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gibosi View Post
 

How about the 6336 as a power tube? This is essentially two 6AS7s in one bottle, and thus requires 5 amps of heater current. :)

 

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aai0287.htm

 

This would indeed be another great milestone for us, gibosi,...IF it were possible! Everything looks stacked against us with these types - the fateful day is a while off just yet, as I await all the necessary ingredients for the Chinese fireworks!!! (A prayer or two might not go amiss!..)

 

Cheers.

post #5853 of 10501
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypnos1 View Post
 

 

Yo gibosi...lovely (surprisingly large!) tubes...glad you like 'em...

 

As for the forward nature, I have found that it is all down to the power stage...as I mentioned some while back - and now corroborated by mordy - the old-established wisdom re the power tubes not having a great impact on the final result is just not correct.

In my case, the differences between 6N30P-DR; Psvane CV181-T II and Sylvania VT231 are not just minimal - especially between the last two...the VT231 is much more forward, quite a different sound. At first I thought it may just be a question of strange synergy between my C3gSs and the followers, but mordy's findings with different 6SN7s has confirmed my suspicions...power tubes are just as important as the drivers in our LDs. So more research is definitely needed in this area...perhaps tubes a little less risky than those (6AS7) I shall be trying in the weeks to come! The LD journey is obviously not over yet!!

 

 

This would indeed be another great milestone for us, gibosi,...IF it were possible! Everything looks stacked against us with these types - the fateful day is a while off just yet, as I await all the necessary ingredients for the Chinese fireworks!!! (A prayer or two might not go amiss!..)

 

Cheers.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), default quality

 

Might need more than that! :wink_face:

post #5854 of 10501
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKELAP View Post
 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), default quality

 

Might need more than that! :wink_face:

 

Reckon you could just be right, mikelap...been nice knowing y'all!! :triportsad:

post #5855 of 10501
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypnos1 View Post
 

 

Reckon you could just be right, mikelap...been nice knowing y'all!! :triportsad:

 

Has anyone tried 12AX7 as power tubes yet?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-socket-converter-adapter-12ax7-ecc83-to-russian-6n2p-/161183516184?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2587494618

 

should be safe

 

"The 'E' in the European designation classifies this as having a 6.3 volt heater" at 300 mA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12AX7

 

I think someone suspected these of being identical to re-issue telefunkens:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x-NEW-JJ-Tesla-12AX7-ECC83-ECC83S-Vacuum-Tube-Matched-Pair-TESTED-/290608597897?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item43a99f4b89

 

I still want to try some VT231's i've still only be using re-issue Tung Sol 6SN7.


Edited by mab1376 - 4/16/14 at 1:33pm
post #5856 of 10501
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypnos1 View Post
 

As for the forward nature, I have found that it is all down to the power stage...as I mentioned some while back - and now corroborated by mordy - the old-established wisdom re the power tubes not having a great impact on the final result is just not correct.

In my case, the differences between 6N30P-DR; Psvane CV181-T II and Sylvania VT231 are not just minimal - especially between the last two...the VT231 is much more forward, quite a different sound. At first I thought it may just be a question of strange synergy between my C3gSs and the followers, but mordy's findings with different 6SN7s has confirmed my suspicions...power tubes are just as important as the drivers in our LDs. So more research is definitely needed in this area...perhaps tubes a little less risky than those (6AS7) I shall be trying in the weeks to come! The LD journey is obviously not over yet!!

 

While this is true for all-tube amps, where driver tubes actually "drive" the output tubes, in the LD 1+, the driver tubes don't really "drive" anything. And in fact, if one wanted, the tube stage can be bypassed by a straight wire, and the amp would still work perfectly fine, minus the tube "flavor". With no interaction between the tube and op amp stages, the op amp simply amplifies the audio signal after it has been "flavored" by the tube. And therefore, I am quite confident in saying that the C3g is inherently a bit more forward than my reference Sylvania, all else being equal.

 

But of course, as those of you who have power tubes know, finding and selecting driver and power tubes with just the right synergy is half the fun. And I do hope to be able to eventually find and purchase an OTL amp with 6AS7 type power tubes so that I can double my fun too. :)

post #5857 of 10501
Quote:
Originally Posted by mab1376 View Post
 

 

Has anyone tried 12AX7 as power tubes yet?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-socket-converter-adapter-12ax7-ecc83-to-russian-6n2p-/161183516184?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2587494618

 

should be safe

 

"The 'E' in the European designation classifies this as having a 6.3 volt heater" at 300 mA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12AX7

 

I think someone suspected these of being identical to re-issue telefunkens:

 

I have never seen seen the 12A-7 tubes used as power tubes, only as drivers. Being small signal tubes, I don't think they can provide enough "power", so to speak. But of course, should you want to try, they may well work. However, as the LD is configured for 6 volt power tubes, you will need to find an adapter to enable these 12 volt tubes to run on 6 volts.

post #5858 of 10501

Europe calling! They are 6V tubes!

 

As well. When properly connected as such.

 

;) 

post #5859 of 10501

amps have used them as outputs [paralled]  but not my choice!

post #5860 of 10501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oskari View Post
 

Europe calling! They are 6V tubes!

 

As well. When properly connected as such.

 

;) 

 

Yes, I know. :)

 

However, the LD power-tube sockets are wired for 6N30P-type tubes, and I am quite sure most folks are not up to disassembling their LD and rewiring pins 4, 5 and 9 on the circuit board to run 12A-7 type tubes in 6-volt mode. And therefore, I suggested adapters such as these to reconfigure the heaters and allow one to plug 12A-7-type tubes into a 6 volt socket configured for 6N30P (6GC6/6DJ8).

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Two-adapters-for-12AU7-ECC82-6CG7-TUBES-amplifier-/260716251584?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cb3e649c0

post #5861 of 10501
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibosi View Post

 

Yes, I know. :)

 

I know you do. (I'm just joking.)

 

But the E says that they are 6V tubes... (I'm going to stop now.)  :o

post #5862 of 10501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oskari View Post
 

I know you do. (I'm just joking.)

 

But the E says that they are 6V tubes... (I'm going to stop now.)  :o

 

Oh, now I see what you mean!  

 

ECC81 (12AT7), ECC82 (12AU7), ECC83 (12AX7).

 

In the European system, the beginning "E" indicates 6V tubes. "F" indicates 12V tubes, but I don't know that I have ever seen a European tube beginning with "F"?

post #5863 of 10501

In the past I tried several different 12AX7 tubes as drivers but was not very impressed. IMHO there is a correlation between how a driver tube sounds compared to the same tube used as a power tube. It seems to me that a tube that sounds good as a driver tube would sound good as a power tube as well, and a poor sounding driver tube would not sound good when used as a power tube.

 

It also seems to me that the electric guitar crowd like the 12AX7 for their amps, which has caused the prices to go up, especially on the older German and British tubes.

post #5864 of 10501

Again, I don't think the 12AX7 have enough power. But if someone wants to try a small signal tube, the 6DJ8 / ECC88 is plug and play. Like the 12AX7, I doubt it has enough power, but if someone wants to try, it would be easier and cheaper than buying a pair of adapters for the 12AX7.

post #5865 of 10501

Siemens C3g and Sylvania (gold pin) GB 5670 (396A / 2C51)

 

Did a quick AB to compare tonality. While I find the mid range on the C3g to be a tad bit more forward than the Sylvania 6SN7W, it is very nearly the same as the Sylvania 5670. With the C3g vocals have a tad bit more warmth in the upper bass / lower mid range while the 5670 is maybe a tad bit more lush, but they are very close. Again, this was just a quick AB, so can't say more at this time....

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