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Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide - Page 250

post #3736 of 7333

Hi AFB,

 

Glad to hear that you see the light at the end of the tunnel. In looking for Amperex 6DJ8 tubes there are many variants.

 

There is an orange globe PQ. This is Amperex premium quality 10,000 hour tube. (Dutch DR?) Is this what I should look for?

 

Also plate and getter constructions vary, and the country of manufacturing (Holland or England).

 

What is the difference between the Beekman Bugle Boy and the Orange Globe?

 

There are also Tektronix matched pairs available.

 

Would appreciate advice on the exact type to pick for best sound (picture?)

 

Perhaps RCA labeled types are the sleepers?

 

Cheers,

post #3737 of 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordy View Post
 

Hi AFB,

 

Glad to hear that you see the light at the end of the tunnel. In looking for Amperex 6DJ8 tubes there are many variants.

 

There is an orange globe PQ. This is Amperex premium quality 10,000 hour tube. (Dutch DR?) Is this what I should look for?

 

Also plate and getter constructions vary, and the country of manufacturing (Holland or England).

 

What is the difference between the Beekman Bugle Boy and the Orange Globe?

 

There are also Tektronix matched pairs available.

 

Would appreciate advice on the exact type to pick for best sound (picture?)

 

Perhaps RCA labeled types are the sleepers?

 

Cheers,

 

Here's an actually pretty good start, despite the "absolute" feeling it give off:

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html

 

What this Joe dude has to say on 6DJ8 tubes actually seems to be pretty consensual, even 13 years after writing, and most rollers seem to globally agree with his view of the Amp'ex world.

 

Quoting myself on page 241: "Alright! I managed to find a single, super strong (as in 20% over NOS) Amperex "Orange Globe" 6DJ8 from the late 60s (so not a "Bugle Boys" 6DJ8 from the early or mid-60s, and not an "Orange Globe" with an A-frame getter from 70 onwards), so the best Amp'ex short of some crazy rare tubes, recommended by all who have tried them. I just communicated with a seller who was selling some very nice pairs for "OK" prices, asked him if he had singles, and obviously he had plenty and was willing to sell them for less than half of the price of a pair (cheaper than buying pairs, which is a bit ironic)."

 

Yes, from my understanding, and while many people love the late 50s and 60-66 white label Bugle Boys Amperex 6DJ8 and fewer people the A-frame dimpled getter '69 onwards Orange Globes (OG), the 67-69 basic halo getter OG are often considered to be the best critically speaking -not the most musical or the most fill-in-the-blank but the best basic Amp'ex tube all in all.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEREX-ORANGE-GLOBE-6DJ8-ECC88-VACUUM-TUBE-1967-MATCH-PAIR-SWEET-SMOOTH-TONE-3-/321232935246?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item4acaf9994e

 

Here is a basic example of the "Orange Globe" world logo, sold by the same guy who sold me a single tube. See the single support halo getter -and orange world logo- and shape? This is what you're looking for. Though many other Amp'ex tubes are getting riot reviews; but these just happen to be the "gateway drug" because of their rather extreme price/performance ratio (again, these are often considered end game tubes, and yes, $80 is not cheap in my world view, but it's one of the cheapest quality offerings that can be had for much less with time and effort).

 

I'm only just starting to investigate the better-than-OG Amperex/Philips tubes, so I can't comment on the so-called premium offerings yet. I just started with what is considered as a cheap-ish killer tube, and thought I'd work my way up accordingly -or not!

post #3738 of 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordy View Post
 

Also plate and getter constructions vary, and the country of manufacturing (Holland or England).

 

What is the difference between the Beekman Bugle Boy and the Orange Globe?

 

Beekman?

 

The difference between BBs and OGs is vintage. Also getters changed over the years.

 

Holland = made by Philips; England = made by Mullard.

 

Meaning that … an Amperex 6DJ8 is most likely either a Philips ECC88 or a Mullard ECC88.

 

6DJ8s were not made by Amperex in US. 6922s and 7308s were. (But also by other Philips group factories.)

 

Perhaps RCA labeled types are the sleepers?

 

RCAs were often relabeled Siemens tubes.

post #3739 of 7333

the first of my 3 different op-amps for the little dot has arrived, don't know which one, haven't opened the package yet

on the subject of orange globe 6dj8's i just ordered a 1969 pair for my lyr, from mercedesman:

Processed By eBay with ImageMagick, R1.1.1.||B2||T0JKX0lEPTVjYTFhYjFlYTQ0NzI0NTUwNTI1YWE5MGNkNDQzMjA1MjY5OGZlMGRlZTM1fHxPUklHSU5BTF9FQkFZX1FVQUxJVFlfU0NPUkU9NHx8Q1JFQVRJT05fREFURT0xMC8yNi8xMyAzOjAxIEFN

i had a 1960,A frame, from him already.

there is just one hitch here though, when i got the 69's, i had forgotten that i'd already ordered a pair of 69's from someone else.

they haven't arrived as yet, from  the pics, mecedesman's look nicer

post #3740 of 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordy View Post
 

There is an orange globe PQ. This is Amperex premium quality 10,000 hour tube. (Dutch DR?) Is this what I should look for?

 

Also plate and getter constructions vary, and the country of manufacturing (Holland or England).

 

What is the difference between the Beekman Bugle Boy and the Orange Globe?

 

There are also Tektronix matched pairs available.

 

Would appreciate advice on the exact type to pick for best sound (picture?)

 

Perhaps RCA labeled types are the sleepers?

 

 

- Orange Globe PQ - It appears that these are standard 6DJ8 / ECC88 with a fancy label, so you don't want to pay extra for them. On the other hand, if they have the 2-stage halo getter as shown in the picture that Jaywillin has posted, and you can get them at a good price, then these are the Orange Globes to get. Tektronix, HP and other labels on standard Orange Globes are fine, but again, not worth paying extra. True SQ and PQ tubes will be labeled 6922 / E88CC or 7308 / E188CC and have gold pins.

 

- Country of origin - Amperex 6DJ8 manufactured in England are, in fact, Mullards, and they will not sound the same as those manufactured in Holland....

 

- US-made Amperex 6922 and 7308 versus Holland-made Amperex 6922 and 7308 sound somewhat different. See Joe's Tube Lore for more info. I followed his advice in purchasing my US-made Amperex 6922 and they are to die for. :)

 

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2

 

- Beekman Bugle Boy - I believe you mean Beckman. I purchased a pair of Beckman-labeled, US-made Amperex 6922 / E88CC, with gold pins. Mine are identical to tubes with the Amperex label, but I got them for considerably less. If resale value is important, it might be worth buying Amperex-labeled tubes. If sound is paramount, there are good deals to be had by searching for relabeled tubes.

 

- RCA did not manufacture 6DJ8 tubes. Therefore, every RCA you see was manufactured by another company, and very often, that company was Siemens.

 

In summary, I recommend that you try to find an Orange Globe with the two-stage halo getter such as Jaywillin and AFB have purchased. (that is, not an A-frame) . While I do not have these OGs, I do have the white label Bugle Boys and the A-frame OGs and both are excellent tubes, as well. Further, if you would like to try one of the premium tubes, to my ear the US-made Amperex 6922 is superior to my Bugle Boys and OG.

post #3741 of 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofanboy View Post
 

'Nyway, this is my best tube. Period (until the next one). This truly could be an "end game" tube, and it turns out to be for many people. The differences between good tubes used to be subtle or marked at best, but here the difference with anything else I've tried is obvious and dramatic. Joe's tube lore describes this tube very well on his eponymous webpage, but the one word -OK, two words- that comes to me is immediate, and also transparent. I've never heard music sound so immediate and surrounding. You can't test or spend an hour comparing this tube to other tubes, it just draws you in and you just have to listen to the music. Now, that's a head-fi experience for you!

 

It should be an end game tube, it very well could be as far as my ears are concerned, but just can't stop now that I've seen what a good 6DJ8 can do! So, expect more -albeit less frequent for obvious price concerns- 6DJ8 testing in the following weeks!

 

Side note: I'm really going back to thinking that it would be a lot easier to just bite the bullet and use pairs of 6DJ8 in our LDs (once one finds his "graal" tube). Small footprint, basic, DIY adapters or Vector-type socket testers for an easier and (for us less handy folks or the less arts & crafty types like me) prettier result (non-destructive two-socket solutions wouldn't be difficult to create, the ram-6DJ8-in-B7G-socket is no longer an acceptable option). On the MK IV SE, it really kind of pains me to ruin the overall esthetics of the amp with any kind of single tube adapter...

 

These are my thoughts as well. The 6DJ8 (and premium variants) seem to me to be the ultimate tube for the LD. The "immediacy" and transparency I am hearing is often simply breathtaking. My cheap little 1+ is flying miles above where any $110 amp should be. And I am sure that the LD IVse, with much higher-quality components and power tubes, is flying even higher! lol.

 

So my advice... get yourself a set of OGs... relax... and enjoy. :)

 

(And if AFB can find a clean and elegant way to use pairs that would be great! But for the moment, my prototype with flying wires, while ugly, is giving me everything I need.... and more.... :)


Edited by gibosi - 10/30/13 at 7:11pm
post #3742 of 7333

Thanks for all the answers.

 

"Perhaps RCA labeled types are the sleepers?"

 

Re the RCAs it seems I was right (From Joe's Tube Lore):

 

"A useful tip: RCA never made 6DJ8 family tubes. If it’s an RCA and has a ridged top it’s either an Amperex or a Siemens. I’d watch this brand closely if you stumble on it. Many tube dealers will sell lowly RCA 6DJ8 family tubes for $15 to $20 a tube without realizing that there is European made gold inside. Check the tube’s top for ridges, the label for where it was manufactured and if everything checks out, buy it! This is one of the absolute bargain brands in this tube type."

 

Seeing tubes in the range of $60-$300/pair made me a little nervous, but luckily there is no lack of offers. After sifting through hundreds of tubes offered, I

bought a Tektronix 6DJ8 made in Holland tube from 1975 for $6 shipped. Will see what it is when it arrives. In general, I found when looking into 6AU6 tubes (remember those?) that the Tektronix selected tubes were superior.

 

Have a breadboard on order to make the 6DJ8 adapter. The broken Vector adapter was promised to be replaced by the seller. If the making of the adapter proves too difficult I might vent my frustration by using this breadboard:

 

http://cassandraparkin.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/pain-bread-board.jpg

 

PS to Oskari: Sorry for the typo on the Beekman tube - should have been Beckman.

post #3743 of 7333
That bread board needs a little longer handle "To Bring The PAIN". biggrin.gif
post #3744 of 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypnos1 View Post
 

Hi Bundy.

 

Glad you are recovering nicely from your op - I am sure following the guys on this forum is proving wonderful convalescent therapy! I personally have gained much in the relatively short time since I found this thread - AND it's been great fun...keep up with it...

 

May I just encourage you to make quantum leaps in this rolling game by taking advantage of the immense time, dedication and effort (not to mention money!) the guys have invested over the past months - tubes have been discovered that will leave the 6J1P way behind, e.g. my personal favourite (as a straight substitute in EF95 setting, with no need for any modification) the Ei 6HM5, which is listed with a link by Gibosi in post #3366, and has had offer of $5 a tube accepted with FREE delivery! Unless you fancy entering the world of double triodes and adapters, that is - which I am only just in the process of sorting out...

 

Whatever, I wish you all the best in this fascinating, if sometimes frustrating(!) rolling game...

Hi hypnos1,

  Thank you for your kind words, With the many hours spent in bed since my surgery's i have found this forum to be just that "wonderful convalescent therapy". Thank you for your advice regarding 6J1P Tubes i was just making the most of wot was available here in New Zealand. I think i might have been con'd a bit it said in the add that these voshkod tubes had grooved glass & this made them some wot rare & sort after. Oh well live & learn but i do like the sound. I will look for Ei 6HM5 & see if i can find a pair down this part of the world. I will also go & have a look at the link left by Gibosi. Thanks for all the information & advice all appreciated by this tubee newbee

           Bundy

post #3745 of 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollDragon View Post

That bread board needs a little longer handle "To Bring The PAIN". biggrin.gif

Dont remember  a breadboard ,a hand made of steel was enough.:eek:

post #3746 of 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKELAP View Post
 

Dont remember  a breadboard ,a hand made of steel was enough.:eek:

Tis very true. :wink_face:

post #3747 of 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordy View Post
 

Seeing tubes in the range of $60-$300/pair made me a little nervous, but luckily there is no lack of offers. After sifting through hundreds of tubes offered, I

bought a Tektronix 6DJ8 made in Holland tube from 1975 for $6 shipped. Will see what it is when it arrives. In general, I found when looking into 6AU6 tubes (remember those?) that the Tektronix selected tubes were superior.

 

A manufacture-date of 1975 suggests that this tube is equivalent to a "red label" Amperex. These were manufactured after the A-frame Orange Globes. If you look closely at the getter, it is likely a simple halo getter, and it is different than the beefier two-stage halo getters of the earlier OGs made in the late 1960s. Even so, it is likely still a very good tube, but not quite the same as the OGs that AFB and Jaywillin have.

post #3748 of 7333

Hi Gibosi,

 

It probably is the type you describe. It will be a beginning of trying out Amperex 6DJ8 tubes - I don't even have the parts for the adapter yet (waiting for breadboard with socket and Vector replacement).

 

Below are pictures of my low cost hillbilly 12A7 adapter.

Parts list: 2 Vector adapters $14

               Old 60's wire 22 gauge free

               9 pin socket ~$5

               Little piece of wood from somewhere free

               Screw from stash free

               Plastic tie 2 cents

               1" electric tape

               Labor free for spider web wiring, but I owe my friend a favor or two

 

Please: Don't laugh - this is very serious business for me and allows me to stay in the race for the best tube. BTW, as long as I don't touch anything there is no hum (unless I turn up the volume to deafening levels).

 

 

If necessity is the mother of invention, where do all unnecessary inventions come from?

post #3749 of 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordy View Post
 

Hi Gibosi,

 

It probably is the type you describe. It will be a beginning of trying out Amperex 6DJ8 tubes - I don't even have the parts for the adapter yet (waiting for breadboard with socket and Vector replacement).

 

Below are pictures of my low cost hillbilly 12A7 adapter.

Parts list: 2 Vector adapters $14

               Old 60's wire 22 gauge free

               9 pin socket ~$5

               Little piece of wood from somewhere free

               Screw from stash free

               Plastic tie 2 cents

               1" electric tape

               Labor free for spider web wiring, but I owe my friend a favor or two

 

Please: Don't laugh - this is very serious business for me and allows me to stay in the race for the best tube. BTW, as long as I don't touch anything there is no hum (unless I turn up the volume to deafening levels).

 

 

If necessity is the mother of invention, where do all unnecessary inventions come from?

Was the word fire ever mention during the course of this project by anybody! lol.

post #3750 of 7333

Hi Mikelap,

 

I assume that you are referring to the screw holding the socket. The socket itself came with a mounting ring with facilities for two screws to hold the socket in place. If it was designed for this, why do you feel that this setup is a fire hazard?

 

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