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Little Dot Tube Amps: Vacuum Tube Rolling Guide - Page 118

post #1756 of 7505

Something tells me that you are better off not dealing with this guy.....

 

 

My father-in-law who was in the retail business used to say : That person you could do a good day's business without!
 

post #1757 of 7505

Speaking of vendors, I would like to give a shout out to haunebuvintage on eBay:

 

http://stores.ebay.de/haunebuvintage?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

 

This is the vendor that sold these Siemens EH90 to Acapella11, Mordy and me. As some might remember, I received two tubes that were not a good match, even though they were both genuine Siemens tubes (post #1737). I wrote offering to purchase two more tubes, so that I would then have two slightly different pairs of these Siemens. He replied that he was sorry and that he would send these tubes to me for free. In his words, it was an "honor thing."

 

If anyone is interested in purchasing a pair of these EH90, I recommend him. His prices and shipping charges are quite reasonable and he is a good guy.

post #1758 of 7505

Second that - tubes came quickly and were very well packaged. In addition, he accepted 4 Euros for each tube instead of 5.

 

Presently burning these tubes in - have passed the 25 hr mark. It is pretty hot here, so I turned on my computer fan that I have hanging over the the LD amp to draw air from underneath the amp instead of blowing directly on it.

 

It is a 120 mm fan and maybe overkill. The amp get so cool that it feels cold and you can touch the driver tubes that only feel lukewarm. Left it on overnight. In the late morning I listened again to the tubes and noticed that the treble sparkle was down - sounded somewhat dull.

 

After shutting off the fan and letting the tubes warm up more they sound much better. I wonder if the vacuum tubes need a certain operating temperature to sound their best? Did not notice a difference with other tubes except for the Siemens.

 

Anyhow, this big fan is very noisy so I am going to try a smaller fan from my PC parts bin.
 

post #1759 of 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypnos1 View Post

 

Hi gibosi.

 

Perhaps you might treat yourself to something REALLY useful for your birthday, as I hope to - a head DESCRAMBLER/REBOOTER...to help with this rolling pastime!!! Good luck with the search. Please let me know if you succeed!

 

Audiofanboy : A heartfelt plea to you on this topic of "to 1-7 strap EK90s, or not"...I know you did warn us re possible 'shock' on first encounter, but perhaps you should have issued a Gov't (mental) health warning!! I refer to the perceived 'wayward' control element in complex tracks, and a thinness in vocals (especially voiced by gibosi). It would appear most regulars on this forum are now shying away from said strap. The point is, after my initial doubt re overall control -  then less doubt -  my head is spinning somewhat! I am wondering if you have explored further in this particular direction yourself, and whether you can shed some of your invaluable insight on the subject...Look forward to your views AFB...

 

Acapella 11 : The same plea to you - have you encountered these aspects in your extensive trials? Part of me wants to stay with the strap, the other wants to go - could love/hate relationships also exist in the rolling world? Certainly seems to be creeping into mine!!! Would love to hear your views also - perhaps others might too?...

 

Got some Siemens EH90s on the way, so perhaps my mental state will improve with these on 1-7...I certainly hope so!...lol...

 

Awaiting some Confucian wisdom with anticipation,

 

A crazy junior headfi roller...

 

Up to here, my "conclusion" about strapping or not heptodes is pretty much a lack of conclusion, as in, no real distinguishable pattern -on 6BY6 types that is. All my heptodes sound good on either setting, some literally on both, like my E91H, and others on one or the other: strapped for my 5915, unstrapped for my Tele EH900S (not that they sounded bad strapped but just too forward present for my taste).

 

I'm expecting another boat load of both 6BE6 and 6BY6 in the mail, so I'll be able to do some more comparing; but I do believe that the inherent difference in how both those tube types are made -remote cutoff grid 3 for 6BE6 and sharp cutoff for 6BY6- has an impact on how the tubes sound strapped (if you tie grids together that have different characteristics, you could expect that it could do something unexpected).

 

I actually tried the 2-7 strap on my E91H, and didn't particularly liked how it sounded. It wasn't exactly sub-par compared to 1-7 strapped or unstrapped, but just not quite as good as either of those settings - or at least as 1-7 strapped, I didn't get a chance to compare it directly with the unstrapped setting.

 

So, basically, the only conclusion of sorts I can reach for now is: 1-7 strap your 6BY6 types, if you find it too forward or unreal, unstrap them and be happy; use whichever you prefer with 6BE6 types, but you'll probably be happier with them unstrapped; 6CS6 are still a mystery, but should behave closer to 6BY6 types considering their grid's cutoff characteristics.

post #1760 of 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibosi View Post

Speaking of vendors, I would like to give a shout out to haunebuvintage on eBay:

 

http://stores.ebay.de/haunebuvintage?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

 

This is the vendor that sold these Siemens EH90 to Acapella11, Mordy and me. As some might remember, I received two tubes that were not a good match, even though they were both genuine Siemens tubes (post #1737). I wrote offering to purchase two more tubes, so that I would then have two slightly different pairs of these Siemens. He replied that he was sorry and that he would send these tubes to me for free. In his words, it was an "honor thing."

 

If anyone is interested in purchasing a pair of these EH90, I recommend him. His prices and shipping charges are quite reasonable and he is a good guy.

I see you can make offers how much is a decent offer or how much did you pay for them thanks will save me the back in forth

post #1761 of 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordy View Post

Second that - tubes came quickly and were very well packaged. In addition, he accepted 4 Euros for each tube instead of 5.

 

Presently burning these tubes in - have passed the 25 hr mark. It is pretty hot here, so I turned on my computer fan that I have hanging over the the LD amp to draw air from underneath the amp instead of blowing directly on it.

 

It is a 120 mm fan and maybe overkill. The amp get so cool that it feels cold and you can touch the driver tubes that only feel lukewarm. Left it on overnight. In the late morning I listened again to the tubes and noticed that the treble sparkle was down - sounded somewhat dull.

 

After shutting off the fan and letting the tubes warm up more they sound much better. I wonder if the vacuum tubes need a certain operating temperature to sound their best? Did not notice a difference with other tubes except for the Siemens.

 

Anyhow, this big fan is very noisy so I am going to try a smaller fan from my PC parts bin.
 

great just found my anwer about how much to pay for them was reading gibosi thread great .ill get a few pairs 

post #1762 of 7505

i got a problem a problem with the link to the german site for the siemens once i get there the translater  fine but when you go to the next page to the tube itself translater at top of page is not there what to do my german skills are limited any ideas   EDITED : problem solved.


Edited by MIKELAP - 7/3/13 at 4:56am
post #1763 of 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibosi View Post

 

Recently, I made a ridiculously low offer for a pair of tubes. (Primarily because the vendor was charging almost $11 to ship two tubes from Virginia to Ohio!) He rejected my offer and then blocked all communication from me, including submitting any future offers! Please forgive my language, but what a jerk! ahaha... :)

 

that is pretty ******-y if I do say so myself.

 

I hate when they jack up shipping on something like we won't notice. clearly that just more profit for them, they're not fooling anyone.

 

Whats the user account? we should boycott him!


Edited by mab1376 - 7/3/13 at 1:19pm
post #1764 of 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofanboy View Post

 

Up to here, my "conclusion" about strapping or not heptodes is pretty much a lack of conclusion, as in, no real distinguishable pattern -on 6BY6 types that is. All my heptodes sound good on either setting, some literally on both, like my E91H, and others on one or the other: strapped for my 5915, unstrapped for my Tele EH900S (not that they sounded bad strapped but just too forward present for my taste).

 

I'm expecting another boat load of both 6BE6 and 6BY6 in the mail, so I'll be able to do some more comparing; but I do believe that the inherent difference in how both those tube types are made -remote cutoff grid 3 for 6BE6 and sharp cutoff for 6BY6- has an impact on how the tubes sound strapped (if you tie grids together that have different characteristics, you could expect that it could do something unexpected).

 

I actually tried the 2-7 strap on my E91H, and didn't particularly liked how it sounded. It wasn't exactly sub-par compared to 1-7 strapped or unstrapped, but just not quite as good as either of those settings - or at least as 1-7 strapped, I didn't get a chance to compare it directly with the unstrapped setting.

 

So, basically, the only conclusion of sorts I can reach for now is: 1-7 strap your 6BY6 types, if you find it too forward or unreal, unstrap them and be happy; use whichever you prefer with 6BE6 types, but you'll probably be happier with them unstrapped; 6CS6 are still a mystery, but should behave closer to 6BY6 types considering their grid's cutoff characteristics.

 

I did a full 24 hours straight burn in on my RCA 6BY6 tubes and i can say they're very pleasing and very similar to the TFK EH900S, nice tubey warm sound with a good amount of detail. Great all around tube!

post #1765 of 7505

Well just bought  myself 2 pairs of Siemens eh90's thanks for the tip mordy got them for 4 euros each. after this i am actually waiting for about 35 tubes fun fun fun. and of course they have there little house waiting for them. do i need help hmmm. Edited: got them just in time only one left.


Edited by MIKELAP - 7/3/13 at 7:52am
post #1766 of 7505

Got news regarding the socket adaptor from PCX so basically what he told me is that they would have them made in China they would have to order 50 to 100  and the price would the same as we paid for the other sockets we had made $20.00 a piece so i guess might as well inquire directly to the guys that made our other sockets and see what happens.Ill look into it.

post #1767 of 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiofanboy View Post

So, basically, the only conclusion of sorts I can reach for now is: 1-7 strap your 6BY6 types, if you find it too forward or unreal, unstrap them and be happy; use whichever you prefer with 6BE6 types, but you'll probably be happier with them unstrapped; 6CS6 are still a mystery, but should behave closer to 6BY6 types considering their grid's cutoff characteristics.

 

Hi Audiofanboy, I was kind of curious about your current point of view.

It boils down to preference, incl. the setup your are using, and tube.

 

What we (all of us) could do in this thread are a few generalizations of the effect of strapping / non-strapping of heptodes in EF95 setting.

So, here are are some statements for discussion.

 

- Non-strapping, Gives most relaxed sound (as in least forward) and includes most ambience as well. Should work well with every heptode.

- 1/7, Includes more treble bias and can reveal more detail. Depending on tube you could loose depth of stage resulting in a more forward sound. A good way to make the tube "more engaging".

- 2/7, This is ambiguous for me. A total no go for the Tung Sol 6BE6 (bass crazy), not too much effect for the 6A6P, quite nice with the Amperex E91H - that's just me ;) (more treble, more engaging, more forward).

- EF91/92 (= 6/7 or 5/7), so far hardly useful strap for most tubes. For 6BE6, it yields more treble but lesser ambience and overall doesn't sound balanced. Having have said that, the 6A2P I have is quite bass heavy and with not too deep stage, so this strap actually could do something good.

 

Please respond everyone. I understand that it can take a while from now to reach final conclusion but once reached, I will add this to the table on p. 77.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by hypnos1 View Post

Hi A11,

 

Thanks for your reply. Once again I am in awe of your ability to dissect what is entering your ears, and then describe same in such depth...are/were you in sound engineering perchance?

 

Whatever, I feel totally inadequate! I wish I could describe in your terms what I mentioned as 'apparent loss of overall control in complex instrument (electronic) and vocal pieces', eg some Genesis/Duke tracks. Am I wide of the mark in associating this with your term 'focus?' Is what I am trying to convey rather the opposite - UNfocussed?

Thanks hypnos1, no I am not in sound engineering. I am just trying to analyze and describe what I hear. I am used to analyze and explain other matters work wise.

 

Definition of focus from this post: Focus - A strong, precise sense of image projection.

 

So, when I write focus, I mean the quality of an image rendered in my head, coming from listening. If borders and shape of heads and instruments become better defined, then focus is improved. Think of lense focus. Your "loss of control" could also include instrument separation, which again can be a result of lesser focus and a narrower stage. Difficult to say. Definitely keep writing, you will notice that your listening analysis changes as your vocabulary changes, which helps to write your experience. Of course, we all do this for the pleasure of music and sound and that is in fact the most important thing. =)


Edited by Acapella11 - 7/3/13 at 3:52pm
post #1768 of 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by mab1376 View Post

 

that is pretty ******-y if I do say so myself.

 

I hate when they jack up shipping on something like we won't notice. clearly that just more profit for them, they're not fooling anyone.

 

Whats the user account? we should boycott him!

 

Lot of (2) Vintage TELEFUNKEN EH900S E91H Audio/Radio/Amp Vacuum Tubes

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-Vintage-TELEFUNKEN-EH900S-E91H-Audio-Radio-Amp-Vacuum-Tubes-/400405173654?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5d3a021596

 

And after looking at these more closely, "Made in Germany" is not printed on the tubes. And further, in the middle picture, you can see the Philips Heerlen, Holland factory code (the triangle that looks like the number 4 with the bottom cut off + 9A4) so these are, in fact, Philips/Amperex E91H, manufactured in the 4th week of January,1969, relabeled as Telefunken.

 

In the end, I am very happy I didn't get them. ahaha... :)

 

Edit: Rather than a boycott, I think it would be a hoot if he were to receive a bunch of offers for $1 or $2 a tube.... But of course, I could never suggest that anyone actually do this!  ahaha.. :)


Edited by gibosi - 7/3/13 at 4:13pm
post #1769 of 7505

These guys appear to be scrap merchants, which I think means anything and everything, mostly metal. They're way out of whack with the tube market (esp postage) so it's possible that they simply don't know what they're doing.

post #1770 of 7505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acapella11 View Post

- Non-strapping, Gives most relaxed sound (as in least forward) and includes most ambience as well. Should work well with every heptode.

- 1/7, Includes more treble bias and can reveal more detail. Depending on tube you could loose depth of stage resulting in a more forward sound. A good way to make the tube "more engaging".

- 2/7, This is ambiguous for me. A total no go for the Tung Sol 6BE6 (bass crazy), not too much effect for the 6A6P, quite nice with the Amperex E91H - that's just me ;) (more treble, more engaging, more forward).

- EF91/92 (= 6/7 or 5/7), so far hardly useful strap for most tubes. For 6BE6, it yields more treble but lesser ambience and overall doesn't sound balanced. Having have said that, the 6A2P I have is quite bass heavy and with not too deep stage, so this strap actually could do something good.

 

A11, nice, precise post, as usual!

 

Let's see: I think the way you describe the "effects" -perceived and described by everyone here but obviously quite subjective- is very close to the "pattern" I hear, as far as the 1-7, 2-7 and EF92 settings go.

 

- 1-7 always seems to yield some degree of high-end emphasis; not necessarily more treble per se, or more treble than unstrapped, but definitely more perceived detail -usually. I personally like that setting on most 6BY6 types, though I am having the worse time making up my mind whether or not I could live with it as my permanent go-to setting.

 

- 2-7 -which I admittedly have only tried on one pair of tubes- feels, imo, a bit more relaxed or laid-back somewhat; not by lack of focus or detail, but just by seemingly "taming" some of the rougher aspects emphasized on the 1-7 setting. An interesting setting, worth a try, but I still prefer the 1-7 or unstrapped setting up to now. Try it and help us make up our minds lol. I realize that I'm increasingly straying away from a preference for a laid-back sound and more towards clinical precision and ultra-detail with time though, so I may be biased -but aren't we all though?

 

- Unstrapped has never sounded bad on every heptode I tried it on. At worse, like on 6BY6 tubes, it sounds a bit less high-strung than with the 1-7 mod, and more relaxed, though not always less forward (my Tele EH900S are just as forward on both settings); and at best it sounds natural and effortless, hardly a bad setting to try. Consensus does seem to be in favor of this setting for 6BE6 type tubes. I can't quite say I feel the same about ambience, though I understand exactly what you mean A11. I do feel that the sound is wetter and more "physiological" or natural, but I find I hear more "recorded ambience information" along with the extra perceived detail and soundstage with the 1-7 mod -on 6BY6 tubes.

 

- EF92 setting has been horrific in my experience, it disgusted me of heptodes for a month... Still worth testing, if only for reference though; and you never know when you find a setting that works well for no reason , right?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gibosi View Post

 

Lot of (2) Vintage TELEFUNKEN EH900S E91H Audio/Radio/Amp Vacuum Tubes

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-2-Vintage-TELEFUNKEN-EH900S-E91H-Audio-Radio-Amp-Vacuum-Tubes-/400405173654?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5d3a021596

 

And after looking at these more closely, "Made in Germany" is not printed on the tubes. And further, in the middle picture, you can see the Philips Heerlen, Holland factory code (the triangle that looks like the number 4 with the bottom cut off + 9A4) so these are, in fact, Philips/Amperex E91H, manufactured in the 4th week of January,1969, relabeled as Telefunken.

 

In the end, I am very happy I didn't get them. ahaha... :)

 

Edit: Rather than a boycott, I think it would be a hoot if he were to receive a bunch of offers for $1 or $2 a tube.... But of course, I could never suggest that anyone actually do this!  ahaha.. :)

 

Gibosi, if I'm not mistaken, I think you can see that the tubes are also longer than regular EH900S or 5915 special quality 6BY6 type  tubes; about as long as Heerlen E91H fact lol, so yes, I'm pretty sure these are what you think they are!

 

I'll take this opportunity to encourage all of you to try and pick up a pair of fake-Tele labeled EH900S made by Sylvania and dual-labeled 5915, as these are still my favorite heptodes along with the E91H. Mine came in Tele boxes with military tags, Tele logos on the tubes, 5915/EH900S label, and Bundeswehr "eagle" marking. Regular US 5915 might be perfectly identical, but these should have been somewhat selected, seeing that they're rated for 10K hours and still mil-spec.

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