best budget replacement cables for Sennheiser HD 650's?

Are you able, or can you craft your own HP cable by any chance ?

For instance.....

Some  22 awg OCC6N bare copper solid core ( 4 x 8 ft runs at 1.20 per ft), some nice tough 18 awg Teflon clear tubing (32 ft at .35 cents a ft) to sheath and protect the copper wire runs and a  (8ft) soft nylon ( ***1/4in OD Techflex at .45 cents a ft) or silk ( 4mm OD at 2.60 per ft) outer covering, a decent jack,some adhesive backed heat shrink tubing ( 1ft of 3/4 inch, 1 ft of 1/4 in, 1 ft of 1/2 in ) and a set of Cardas HD650 connectors could make for a very HQ replacement for around 100 USD (slightly under 8ft length) that would put the stock cable to shame (SQ wise).

*** The poly Techflex is cheap but is somewhat micro-phonic compared to the much superior silk outer jacket. Since you only need 8ft of outer casing silk at 2.60USD per ft is a good deal.

All of the above (materials and prices) are taken from Parstconexion.

Peete.

+1 for OCC wires/cables.

In my experience - the most "clear" and the most "transparent" material for headphone cable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete 

Are you able, or can you craft your own HP cable by any chance ?

 

For instance.....

 

Some  22 awg OCC6N bare copper solid core ( 4 x 8 ft runs at 1.20 per ft), some nice tough 18 awg Teflon clear tubing (32 ft at .35 cents a ft) to sheath and protect the copper wire runs and a  (8ft) soft nylon ( ***1/4in OD Techflex at .45 cents a ft) or silk ( 4mm OD at 2.60 per ft) outer covering, a decent jack,some adhesive backed heat shrink tubing ( 1ft of 3/4 inch, 1 ft of 1/4 in, 1 ft of 1/2 in ) and a set of Cardas HD650 connectors could make for a very HQ replacement for around 100 USD (slightly under 8ft length) that would put the stock cable to shame (SQ wise).

 

*** The poly Techflex is cheap but is somewhat micro-phonic compared to the much superior silk outer jacket. Since you only need 8ft of outer casing silk at 2.60USD per ft is a good deal.

 

All of the above (materials and prices) are taken from Parstconexion.

 

Peete.

Thanks for this advice. I'm also looking to recable some HD650s to give balanced a try.

I've been noticing that others have been recommending no larger than 24AWG solid core wires as any larger would be too stiff or heavy. Any thoughts on this?

Also I was wondering why you recommended going with 18AWg teflon tubing for 22AWG wire? Looking at the internal diameter (ID) specs it looks like 22AWG tubing should fit 22AWG wire. (The ID of the 22AWG tubing is listed as 0.71mm and 22AWG is supposed to correspond with ~0.65 mm diameter). Am I missing something or is there a reason for extra room?

And on that note, would it be better so use factory teflon-insulated wire so that there is a snugger fit, as in something like this?

Also, I was wondering how flexible ~20AWG teflon tubing is? Is it easy enough to make twisted pairs for a balanced cable?

Would there be any benefit in covering each twisted pair with silk and then some sort of covering on top of that for the main body of the cable (before the Y-split)?

Any thoughts on cry-treated UP-OCC vs non cryo?

I suggest making a pair of cables using a cardas quad conductor cable. The only difficulty would be in removing the enamel coating on the wire

Quote:

Originally Posted by cynan 

Thanks for this advice. I'm also looking to recable some HD650s to give balanced a try.

 

I've been noticing that others have been recommending no larger than 24AWG solid core wires as any larger would be too stiff or heavy. Any thoughts on this?

 

Also I was wondering why you recommended going with 18AWg teflon tubing for 22AWG wire? Looking at the internal diameter (ID) specs it looks like 22AWG tubing should fit 22AWG wire. (The ID of the 22AWG tubing is listed as 0.71mm and 22AWG is supposed to correspond with ~0.65 mm diameter). Am I missing something or is there a reason for extra room?

 

And on that note, would it be better so use factory teflon-insulated wire so that there is a snugger fit, as in something like this?

 

Also, I was wondering how flexible ~20AWG teflon tubing is? Is it easy enough to make twisted pairs for a balanced cable?

 

Would there be any benefit in covering each twisted pair with silk and then some sort of covering on top of that for the main body of the cable (before the Y-split)?

 

Any thoughts on cry-treated UP-OCC vs non cryo?

 

 

The extra room for the wire is required in order to have some air between the wire itself and the outer casing...Air is the best dielectric. The rule of thumb for ordering Teflon tubing is to go with the next larger size from the selected raw wire gauge (IE 24 awg raw copper hook up requires 22 awg Teflon outer casing). I always go with at least 2 sizes larger than the raw wire (to gain more of a possible air gap for that raw conductor). As for 24 awg...it's a decent size that won't break the bank (if you order pure silver for instance) and it remains somewhat pliable vs the larger gauge solid core. Some folks feel stranded wire is better but IME I much prefer solid core (silver or copper). The size itself between 20-28 awg for head phone cabling has little differences in the end vs  what really counts which is material type and it's purity, geometry selected, quality of connectors and their termination quality (IMO)....if you need a longer cable ( or an extension ) I would go with 20 awg (for anything over 12 ft) 22 awg for 10 ft and 24 awg for 8 ft and under. Short interconnects sound terrific using 24-28 awg sizes FWIW.

As for hook up that is already in a Teflon jacket I would still use tubing for the simple reason that you want to protect the conductor, toughen up the cable so that it will give many years of performance. The one drawback to using wire that is already coated with Teflon is the loss of that "air gap" which is something desirable for any audio wiring WRT sound quality. In the case of say Mundorf silver gold hook up wire (24 awg) I had to use 18 awg Teflon tubing...I tried to use 20 awg but it was a little too tight IIRC.

As for the outer covering...the silk is all you need. Nylon/Poly mesh like Techflex is highly microphonic which is an aural negative for headphone cabling.

Peete.

Homegrown Audio has an ebay page, just search up "24AWG copper teflon wire" and their 25' spool should come up. 

OCC copper 25':                   20 bucks

Cardas HPSC connectors:   20 bucks

Zombie_X/DHC 1/4" plug:     6 bucks (free shipping)

Multifilament nylon sleeve: ~10 bucks (free shipping)

(optional) 

Basic soldering iron and be sure to use the Cardas solder that comes in the kit and you've got yourself a kickass cable my man.

The reason it costs so much to order a cable is just because you'd be surprised how long it takes to braid 6' of cable neatly and uniformly. The Cardas HPSC connectors are very high quality too, I was surprised when I saw them in person.

Definitely do the litz braid though. If you've got some leftover wire, just build some interconnects for fun haha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Himself 

Homegrown Audio has an ebay page, just search up "24AWG copper teflon wire" and their 25' spool should come up. 

 

OCC copper 25':                   20 bucks

Cardas HPSC connectors:   20 bucks

Zombie_X/DHC 1/4" plug:     6 bucks (free shipping)

Multifilament nylon sleeve: ~10 bucks (free shipping)

(optional) 

 

Basic soldering iron and be sure to use the Cardas solder that comes in the kit and you've got yourself a kickass cable my man.

 

The reason it costs so much to order a cable is just because you'd be surprised how long it takes to braid 6' of cable neatly and uniformly. The Cardas HPSC connectors are very high quality too, I was surprised when I saw them in person.

 

Definitely do the litz braid though. If you've got some leftover wire, just build some interconnects for fun haha.

Can I ask for the source of the 25' OCC copper? Would it happen to be stranded as well? That would really make the cable a lot easier to braid and use. I recently used some Neotech OCC (solid) and wasn't too happy with the results, even with a 26 awg wire. 
 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/25-ft-length-26-AWG-OFHC-Copper-wire-FEP-Teflon-/160557904194?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2561ff3142#ht_3038wt_979

This is what he's talking about.  It isn't OCC copper, but it's oxygen free copper.  It's solid core.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootermafia 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/25-ft-length-26-AWG-OFHC-Copper-wire-FEP-Teflon-/160557904194?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2561ff3142#ht_3038wt_979

 

This is what he's talking about.  It isn't OCC copper, but it's oxygen free copper.  It's solid core.  

Ah too bad, thought it was occ and stranded. Solid core's beginning to become a real turnoff for me as headphone cable. 

Can someone summarize why teflon is preferable to the cheaper PVC insulation in this sort of application? I know teflon is generally rated for higher voltage/temperature handling, but this shouldn't be a factor here?

Edit: I'm assuming teflon has a lower dielectric constant?

That's correct.  It's less conductive so it's a better insulator.  Some say that different insulations have different effects on the sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdupiano 

Ah too bad, thought it was occ and stranded. Solid core's beginning to become a real turnoff for me as headphone cable. 

Go to Double Helix and grab their Nucleotide wire then, it's a little expensive, but it's stranded cryo OCC copper, which is as good as it gets from an engineering and manufacturing perspective.