Proteus Cable, fake warning - Page 3

lots of ebay cables are fake. cardas and AQ are prob the most popular ones to fake

just take a look at the cardas site to see all the variations, they all look correct until you cut it apart

Quote:

Originally Posted by endless402 

lots of ebay cables are fake. cardas and AQ are prob the most popular ones to fake

 

just take a look at the cardas site to see all the variations, they all look correct until you cut it apart

According to Siltech, 90% of their cables on eBay are fakes. Newer Siltech cables are more complicated designs, but the old ones were just light blue jackets with white printing. Anybody can copy that, and apparently copy the box and "cable manual" as well. Buyer beware.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAttorney 

 

 

I’ve never previously heard of this company and I don’t care if I ever come across any of their products. But I do care about fairness. Iif an innocent-until-proven-guilty person or company is to lose business or, in the extreme case, their livelihood as result of being publicly vilified, then at least the vilification should be true and accurate.

 

Prog rock man’s first post was interesting – I thought we may get an insight here into the high end cable business. And he correctly challenged the seller/company to respond – he beat me to that one. But when the company came back with an entirely plausible explanation, the thread started to go downhill. Instead of pursuing the investigation to get to the truth, some people just reverted to lazy, biased put downs and tired old cynical speculation. I was even waiting for UE to bring up the coat hanger story.

It's amusing to mention "fairness" when we're talking about someone selling cables costing 2500 GBP though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveBSC 

Except what they chopped up was a $100 cable from China.

 

How did you come to this conclusion?

The link in the OP's post mostly describes the replacement of plugs he did on that particular cable, and at the end it just mentions that the insides of that cable has the Belden cable.

Nowhere does it mention whether the cable is real or not.

I wonder why you are so defensive about this company anyway, looking at this post and the other one with all the bolded words seems that this something personal to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk3 

Quote:

 

It's amusing to mention "fairness" when we're talking about someone selling cables costing 2500 GBP though.

How did you come to this conclusion?

The link in the OP's post mostly describes the replacement of plugs he did on that particular cable, and at the end it just mentions that the insides of that cable has the Belden cable.

Nowhere does it mention whether the cable is real or not.

I wonder why you are so defensive about this company anyway, looking at this post and the other one with all the bolded words seems that this something personal to you.

 

As opposed to what Rowland charges for his glorified chip amps? What were talking about here is not whether a high price tag for a cable is some sort of insult to humanity. That's not the discussion - nor is whether differences between bulk wire and high-end cables are audible. Again, not the discussion, that's why I get irritated when cable haters take over every thread about cables and make it the discussion.

The cable on that site has all the signs of a typical Chinese knock off. It's an outdated model that Purist hasn't made for years, and it's got the same Belden wire in it that anyone can get at an electronics store - say somebody who might be making counterfeit cables. If Purist decided they wanted to rip people off by charging thousands for a cable that cost $5 to make, you don't think somebody might say "Hey guys, maybe we should get bulk wire that doesn't have the brand and model stamped all over it. Maybe since we're claiming this is solid core, maybe we should get that". Nope, they were so lazy that they just shoved stranded, retail Belden in there, assuming that no one might ever want to re-terminate one of their cables.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Eddy 

The Chinese are using Belden cable to make fakes? Or is it fake Belden too?

 

That would be pretty funny. Using fake Belden cable to make a fake Purist Audio Design cable.

 

se

 

 

 

hehe what you said made me laugh quite a bit :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenni 

 

I have never heard of PAD cables before, and their prices are way out of my budget, so I don’t worry about them at all. It’s about misinformation and finding out other sides of the allegations. you guys are on a mission... I'm not. I’m all against snake-oil, but I don’t believe what happened there (15yrs ago) is real. For example, I once bought an AQ’s speaker cable from eBay, before I knew any better, and noticed it had a spelling error; after some enquires turned out it was a fake. If it wasn’t for the spelling I would’ve never known. Show me a genuine PAD cable containing bulk cable, and I’ll change my mind.

 

Whether the PAD cables are worth $4000 or not, please read comment #4. anyway that's not the topic, but If you think you can do better at a fraction of the cost, go ahead and do it. 

All jokes aside, and audio skeptics aside, having a 3/4-1 inch cable is a hell of alot cooler to look at with cool looking wrap, and huge connectors, than a chinese made rubber crapped cable.

I'm just wondering, if the costs of these cables is really driven by an expensive wire-drawing process utilizing expensive materials, and these wires are solid-core, then why is the XLR version only $100 more than the RCA cables?  Surely the XLR uses 50% more wire in it? 

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Doug 

I'm just wondering, if the costs of these cables is really driven by an expensive wire-drawing process utilizing expensive materials, and these wires are solid-core, then why is the XLR version only $100 more than the RCA cables?  Surely the XLR uses 50% more wire in it? 

wouldn't it use 33.3% more wire?

Edit: you probably weren't counting ground. I was puzzled before why you would say 50% more :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenni 

 

I have never heard of PAD cables before, and their prices are way out of my budget, so I don’t worry about them at all. It’s about misinformation and finding out other sides of the allegations. you guys are on a mission... I'm not. I’m all against snake-oil, but I don’t believe what happened there (15yrs ago) is real. For example, I once bought an AQ’s speaker cable from eBay, before I knew any better, and noticed it had a spelling error; after some enquires turned out it was a fake. If it wasn’t for the spelling I would’ve never known. Show me a genuine PAD cable containing bulk cable, and I’ll change my mind.

 

Whether the PAD cables are worth $4000 or not, please read comment #4. anyway that's not the topic, but If you think you can do better at a fraction of the cost, go ahead and do it. 

Let's not get into a single theory per thread mindset.

This topic was originally about fraudulent Purist cables.

But there is no rule against introducing a new subject -- $4,000 cables being worth buying. Which in my mind, they clearly aren't. If you are against snake oil as you say, then you should agree to this idea.

As for the original topic on whether Purist's cables are fraudulent or not -- maybe, maybe not. We both speculate on that one. But whether they are or not, I'm happy to defame them because buying $4k cables is ridiculous. But sure, we can discuss that thread further if you wish -- but I don't see you trying to further that discussion yourself. Your last few posts are merely a reaction to the new thread subject. If you want to keep this discussion focused on the truth of the Proteus Cable, then by all means, steer the discussion back there with a well-thought of argument. If not, then don't complain about where the thread is going.

Now on to the "other" new topic that came about: is this "fair" and am I destroying someone's livelihood?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAttorney 

I’ve never previously heard of this company and I don’t care if I ever come across any of their products. But I do care about fairness. Iif an innocent-until-proven-guilty person or company is to lose business or, in the extreme case, their livelihood as result of being publicly vilified, then at least the vilification should be true and accurate.

 

Prog rock man’s first post was interesting – I thought we may get an insight here into the high end cable business. And he correctly challenged the seller/company to respond – he beat me to that one. But when the company came back with an entirely plausible explanation, the thread started to go downhill. Instead of pursuing the investigation to get to the truth, some people just reverted to lazy, biased put downs and tired old cynical speculation. I was even waiting for UE to bring up the coat hanger story.

 

So, it was disappointing that a promising topic got diluted by biased speculation, and hypocritical for sound scientists to make judgements without substantiated facts.

 

UE, of course fraud exists in ALL walks of life, and of course  subjective claims have severe limitations, and I hate the way high end prices of all components are just getting ridiculous. But we don’t need to bring in the whole scope of the hifi world in order to make one specific point. It just dilutes the point and diffuses the argument.  

 

(The Attorney now gets off his high horse).   

If you care about fairness, is it fair that someone is selling a product for $4k when it in reality is worth no more than $100 at most, maybe even less than that?  Is it fair to the salary man who, caught up by marketing and hype, scrimps and sacrifices daily lunches, gets yelled at by his wife, etc. just to save up and buy said product because it is "heaven on earth" and his life won't be complete without it?

You have to admit, in our hobby lots of people do just that to buy an overpriced accessory or piece of gear. If you want to talk fairness, I want to protect people from getting scammed and down with the person doing the scamming. If you have the balls to sell a cable for $4k better have the data and real world performance to back it up, and if not woe be you. Problem is these kinds of proof don't exist -- that is the "fair" here. I don't think it's "fair" that someone sells a cable for $4k and gets away with it. 

I rather protect the consumer than the vendor. Anyone charging $4k for a cable is bound to take a backlash, and I rather tear down such stupidity before more people get scammed. What gets me is that there are actually people who have been keeping such a company in business for decades.

I don't think this dilutes the argument, and really how much more of the original thread topic can go on without someone hear actually buying said cable and chopping it up? This wasn't a promising thread at all -- what exactly were you expecting from this thread?  You mention that you were looking to see some insight into the High End Cable Business, right?  I thought we were doing just that. And we're showing that it's bollocks. But clearly you're not happy with that insight, and somehow prefer not to turn to iconoclasm. Perhaps you would rather preserve the status quo by keeping these High End Cables Vendors on a pedestal? I have no such inclination.

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Doug 

I'm just wondering, if the costs of these cables is really driven by an expensive wire-drawing process utilizing expensive materials, and these wires are solid-core, then why is the XLR version only $100 more than the RCA cables?  Surely the XLR uses 50% more wire in it? 

What a bargain! I'm gonna buy a couple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Doug 

I'm just wondering, if the costs of these cables is really driven by an expensive wire-drawing process utilizing expensive materials, and these wires are solid-core, then why is the XLR version only $100 more than the RCA cables?  Surely the XLR uses 50% more wire in it? 

Not necessarily. While it's possible to make a perfectly functional RCA cable using only a single wire with a shield used for return (90% of dirt cheap cables are made this way), most high-end cables are elaborate, multi-conductor designs because a braided shield is not exactly the best sounding thing in the world to use as your return conductor. All but Audioquests' cheapest interconnects for example are three wire designs. The only difference between the RCA and XLR versions are the connectors. Multiple conductors and their arrangement (geometry) inside a cable are critical for good sound, and will also produce different measurements. Four wires run in parallel vs. four of the same wires in a star-quad twist will show different inductance and capacitance.

Stealth cables scare me, of all the high end cables out there, they look like they truly are hard to build and get parts for, I can't imagine building a cable out of liquid-metal alloy, for example.  I talked to the owner and they told me that they really do make the cables themselves, in house, with those titanium and carbon fiber connectors done in house too - pretty amazing.

The vast majority of head-fiers revile the notion of a $4000+ cable.  The good news for the high end cable manufacturers is that head-fi is not their target market.  However, if any of you were putting together a million dollar audio system, you would probably have Stealth on your short list of interconnects - if your system is that high end, then it doesn't make any sense not to consider/demo it.  

My view, ignoring all the science (which I take seriously), is simply that if studios aren't using esoteric cables in the recording/mixing/mastering/whatever of the music we all listen to, then I don't see the point in me using them either, even if I was rolling in money and had a big listening room and some Grande Utopia BEs staring me in the face. The only thing I like about some of them is they look nice, but if you're paying $4k for a cable based on looks then you need your head examined.

It is correct that studios don't always use super-high-end cables, so the recorded material as it is put to CD or SACD is the starting block, you can't improve upon it unless you have your own studio with the master tapes or something.  However, the rationale is that by having the best possible audio system, you can get as close to an unaltered picture of the original recording as possible, with a $1million system sounding hyper-real and an iPod with iBuds being considerably farther from the truth.