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European made dacs - Page 7

post #91 of 124

The whole 'we don't use off the shelf solutions' puff is just that - marketing puff. Unless there's a good reason not to use the off the shelf chips. I've read dCS's blurb and they don't give a reason that I've seen. That's not to say that good reasons do not exist mind...

post #92 of 124

Yes they are all guilty and I suppose a necessary evil if you want to sell your kit.

However; you have to look past the marketing to see if there is any actual substance in the claims and underlying technology.

The best recommendation is how they are perceived by people who have laid their money on the line and bought the kit,    

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapientiam View Post

You haven't given consideration to how the dCS ring DAC has become legendary? I'll give you a clue - its called marketing.

post #93 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post

However; you have to look past the marketing to see if there is any actual substance in the claims and underlying technology.

 

That is indeed spot on. I've done this with dCS and have so far not been impressed with what they reveal. But perhaps they keep a lot of secret sauce behind the scenes.

post #94 of 124

Hi end audio is only one part of of the DCS business, so they are used to designing novel electronic solutions for many different types of applications.

 

So why do you think bundling off the shelf relatively cheap modules together, wrapping it in marketing spin and then charging a premium for it is a good idea?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapientiam View Post

The whole 'we don't use off the shelf solutions' puff is just that - marketing puff. Unless there's a good reason not to use the off the shelf chips. I've read dCS's blurb and they don't give a reason that I've seen. That's not to say that good reasons do not exist mind...

post #95 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post

 

So why do you think bundling off the shelf relatively cheap modules together, wrapping it in marketing spin and then charging a premium for it is a good idea?

 

 

 

What gives you the impression I do?

post #96 of 124

Its called intellectual property and you don't give it away to your competition!

 

A good indication is that if the technology or idea is novel does the manufacturer hold a patent for it.  I believe DCS have several such as this one

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/types/patent/p-os/p-journal/p-pj/p-pj-ukappfiled?startYear=2008&startMonth=October&startDay=29th+-+6232&endYear=2008&endMonth=October&endDay=29th+-+6232&filter=GB0817141.5&perPage=10&sort=Publication+Date 

 

 

Publication 
Date
Application 
Number
Details
Rows may repeat to show multiple inventors or applicants depending on "Sort By"
29 October 2008
(Journal 6232)
GB0817141.5 Applicant: Data Conversion Systems Limited
Title: Computer audio interface units and systems
Date Lodged: 19 September 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapientiam View Post

 

That is indeed spot on. I've done this with dCS and have so far not been impressed with what they reveal. But perhaps they keep a lot of secret sauce behind the scenes.

post #97 of 124

I'm not a believer in 'intellectual property' myself  but yes I did find just the one patent attributed to Mike Story of dCS. Incidentally I think he's left dCS now. The patent I recall was filed in 2000 (in USA), so its not exactly new - ESS has been doing quite a lot of work on understanding S-D converters in the meantime.

 

PS the notion of 'competition' in business is an illusion too - competition in the sense of win-lose only applies to finite games, not infinite ones.


Edited by Sapientiam - 9/7/12 at 2:49am
post #98 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBull View Post


Where are the external power supplies ?

 

tongue.gif

post #99 of 124

He was the founder of the company and managing director.  Understand the group of which they are  part of reorganised and as he's been working in that area for many decades, probably took the opportunity to retire.

 

Yes digital moves onward and upward but not necessarily getting better.  There is a move to go back to basics to which is throwing up some interesting ideas and projects.

 

A companies intellectual property is its "crown jewels" e.g. Apple vs Samsung

 

Don't understand your comment that the notion of 'competition' in business is an illusion?

 

Judging by your "handle" Sapientiam  are you a scholar of Latin? 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapientiam View Post

I'm not a believer in 'intellectual property' myself  but yes I did find just the one patent attributed to Mike Story of dCS. Incidentally I think he's left dCS now. The patent I recall was filed in 2000 (in USA), so its not exactly new - ESS has been doing quite a lot of work on understanding S-D converters in the meantime.

 

PS the notion of 'competition' in business is an illusion too - competition in the sense of win-lose only applies to finite games, not infinite ones.


Edited by complin - 9/7/12 at 3:26am
post #100 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post

A companies intellectual property is its "crown jewels" e.g. Apple vs Samsung

 

Don't understand your comment that the notion of 'competition' in business is an illusion?

 

Judging by your "handle" Sapientiam  are you a scholar of Latin? 

 

 

The fact that those two companies consider IP to be their crown jewels is what leads to the madness of their recent court battle. Practically everyone recognises the patent system is broken but they all still play the game regardless. No I'm no Latin scholar - that was phased out at my school before I went there. I do enjoy singing ecclesiastical Latin though.

 

As regards competition being an illusion - its an unnecessary idea if you like me adopt an evolutionary model to the way companies and markets behave. Just as there's no 'competition' in evolution - merely lesser fitness creatures dying out due to inability to adapt, so in the same manner unfit companies go bust. Occam's Razor insists on parsimony hence the notion of 'competition' is rather like epicycles - redundant.

post #101 of 124

Actually I'm a bit shocked that no one mentioned Chord Electonics:

http://www.chordelectronics.co.uk/

 

Their QBD76 HDSD is the Best DAC I've heard in my system, at any price.

 

Don't forget M2Tech too:

http://www.m2tech.biz/

Very nice italian guys, their Young powered by Palmer power supply is very nice sounding, maybe best sound at 2000 Euros, didn't test their flagship - Vaughan (about 6000 Euros) it should be a great DAC.

post #102 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by customcoco View Post

Where are the external power supplies ?

tongue.gif

Oh no, dcs use internal power supply? MUST be a bad design !!!!
post #103 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by customcoco View Post

Where are the external power supplies ?

tongue.gif

Oh no, dcs use internal power supply? MUST be a bad design !!!!
post #104 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosgr63 View Post

What about Weiss?

Don't they use proprietary chips?

No, Lavry Gold does, but that was a product looong time ago.
post #105 of 124

Yes you are right i'm sure there are more too.

I have had the Chord but found it very dry and clinical.

The designer at M2Tech is ex North Star Design in Italy.  I have no first hand experience of this but some of my friend who bought find it it bit too HiFi and "full on" in nature

 

There is also the Romanian DAC;s AD Labs Rokana http://www.audiokit.ro/cart/index.php?categoryID=80

 

Also from the Czech Republic Casea http://www.casea.eu/

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarKu View Post

Actually I'm a bit shocked that no one mentioned Chord Electonics:

http://www.chordelectronics.co.uk/

 

Their QBD76 HDSD is the Best DAC I've heard in my system, at any price.

hand experience of this 

Don't forget M2Tech too:

http://www.m2tech.biz/

Very nice italian guys, their Young powered by Palmer power supply is very nice sounding, maybe best sound at 2000 Euros, didn't test their flagship - Vaughan (about 6000 Euros) it should be a great DAC.

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