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KGSS boards for sale? Alternative power cables?

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

After nixing a previous design for a pair of single ended headphones after the cost of materials, as well as the laws of physics, proved prohibitive, I've decided to do a DIY project based on a design that has been done before, and has been shown to work, Electrostatic headphones and a KGSS amplifier. I did a price check on the transistors, and they'll run me about 60 bucks for all of them. The resistors, I figure, couldn't be too expensive. However, my concern is the boards. Looking over the diagrams, it looks like it would be possible to hook all of these pieces up without a printed board if I just get a non-conductive material with a bunch of holes in it, stuff the board in a pattern similar to the diagram, and then solder together the "connections". Doable? Also, where is the danger in this project? I've heard you can get killed doing this, but how is that possible if I just don't act stupid and don't plug the thing in until ive assembled everything, soldered everything together, and then put it in a case? For my third question about the KGSS, are there alternative power cables to the 100 some dollar one that is recommended? Could I just find a cable with the same measurements laying around and use that?

 

Finally, I have a two questions about the electrostatic headphones, how are you supposed to damp these things? I did the research, I used the search function, I used google before starting a thread, and what I saw looked like an instruction to cover the stators with an airtight material. What? I just thought your supposed to stretch the mylar taut, but not drum tight to work as a damper. My second question, are there alternatives to stators that cover the whole diaphragm? I'm uneasy about putting a piece of metal between the diaphragm and my ears, even if its perforated, that sounds like it would be prone to resonance, and might refract / reflect sound waves. 

post #2 of 19

I think you are in a lot of trouble.

 

The stuff with holes in it is called perfboard and yes you can do a kgss on perfboard.

That being said if you have never used perfboard before then doing a kgss (or any high voltage circuit) on it is asking for literally exploding components.

 

Do you perhaps mean power transformer?

The originally spec'd Victoria Magnetics toroidal transformer is no longer available (afaik) however there are lots of alternative places to get a similar unit.

I would get one from SumR / Richard Sumner in Canada.

 

There are fundamental elements that make an electrostatic "driver" a... well, an electrostatic driver.

There is some information here, a lot of info on diyaudio, and much more spread around the net.

 

Perhaps you should look at something a little smaller scale.

If you really want to pursue stats then get a cheap second hand pair of stax and build a small transformer box with a simple bias supply.

This is much harder to screw up and provides less of a chance of scaring your heart tissues.


Edited by nattonrice - 7/12/11 at 7:58pm
post #3 of 19
Thread Starter 

What's so dangerous about doing a KGSS on perfboard? If I'm really at that high of a risk I suppose I could spend the money for a board.

 

There was an actual power cable spec'd in the plans I was looking at. "The ±15 volt supply is an encapsulated fully regulated power supply brick from Sola Linear (Allied part number 921-9215), which retails for $117. I used a 60 mA version, but thats overkill, because the total current drain is about 12 mA for both channels. Lots of companies make these. It's the black brick in the picture. It is NOT a switching supply. I do not use switchers in audio stuff if I can possibly help it." from headwize

 

Yes, I know there are a lot of fundemental elements, I looked at numerous guides online. My plan was to use two stators made of circuit board, cut it down to my specs, and then drill 50% out. Place the conductive side facing upwards, attach a piece of copper to the conductive side of the circuit board, and then coat the conductive side with a non-conductive coating of paint. My understanding is that this will prevent arcing based on the articles I read. Then I'd cut out rings of non-conductive plastic that are slightly larger than the stators, apply a thin coating of strong epoxy, and attach the ring to the stator. Repeat this four times, then I plan to take a sheet of .9 micron mylar and then stretch it out, then apply a thin coating of epoxy to the exposed side of two of the insulator rings, and then place them face down on the mylar. Or, I'll just pull the mylar taut, apply the rings, and then heatshrink it down after I've attached the other stator / insulator combo to the other side. Put each driver in its housing, wire it up, and finish the cosmetic elements, and I'd assume that I'm done as there was nothing listed on any of the guides I read as to how to damp the headphones. I assumed this was the job of the tension on the diaphragm. 

 

As for smaller scale, I can't afford a pair of secondhand stax. All I'm anticipating needing to pay for with this is 20 bucks to get the materials for the headphones that I don't already have and a hundred bucks for the transistors and resistors on the KGSS. All that I'm concerned about is the price of that cable, and the power transformer. 

 

post #4 of 19

It sounds like you don't know what you are doing, be careful and read read read read read would be my advice.

 

I'd use the blue hawaii power supply reconfigured for 350V if I were to build the kgss today.

 

Be careful when laying out the parts on the perfboard, nattonrice isn't joking here, high voltage loves to jump around all willy nilly, often resulting in exploding parts. It's a very real danger here when you need to poke about inside to measure and set the operating points.

 

Don't forget to budget for extra parts, as one mistake can very well send many parts to heaven. Keep in mind the heatsink requirements, and use proper insulating washers and insulating padsl on them that are rated for high voltage.

post #5 of 19

You could eradicate the power brick problem by having the appropriate secondaries (36Vac, CT) wound on the main transformer.

A simple 7815 / 7915 based supply like the Blue Hawaii one would then take care of that.

 

Indeed. A Blue Hawaii supply with the 100v zener switched for a 50v one would be best.

The 1968 can be swapped for a 1486 without too much trouble, just pay attention to the pin out.

 

Remember that the heat-sinks and power supply caps will add to your costs in a non-trivial way.

post #6 of 19

i'm not sure whether you realize you will have to set and adjust the operating point at high voltage with the case off, there is zero chance you will build it, case it up and have it operate without doing this, each transistor will have a different vgs/hfe etc within the tolerances of the part and the surrounding components will need to be adjusted to create the correct and matching bias. if you do not see the danger in poking around on a piece of perfboard with wiring a couple hundred volts above ground, then i dont know what else we can say. Exploding stuff is not the only sign that something is wrong, only one of the vore obvious ones. On perfboard, unless you are extremely organized it would be possible for live voltage to be present somewhere you do not expect it to be and a slipped probe could make it go all explody in your face

 

and yeah high voltage power supply caps are not cheap, cutting corners and not giving this design the respect it deserves is a recipe for disaster imo. we are placed in a difficult position here; it sounds to me like you are going to push ahead and do this and possibly quite callously. my recommendation would be for you to choose something a bit less ambitious/dangerous that more closely matches your level of experience


Edited by qusp - 7/14/11 at 2:23am
post #7 of 19
Thread Starter 

Well I'm not pushing ahead quite yet. I know that its really bloody dangerous to poke around on a piece of perf board a couple hundred volts above ground, so I'm just going to nix this design. Any other, simpler schematics for a DIY electrostatic SS amp out there? 

post #8 of 19

Have a poke around and look for the exstata, it's pretty simple. There are SS and tube versions I believe.

 

There's decent documentation as well, so perhaps it's the best option for you, especially considering it's a little cheaper and should suffice for testing some DIY stats.

 

It isn't without it's problems though, but I'm not going to go into it.

post #9 of 19
Thread Starter 

Is it possible to get that price down to 150? I couldn't swallow spending 275 for an amp that I intend to use to dick around with some DIY electrostats, I've heard that they usually turn out well but if I'm going to spend more than my senns cost, I want to get more sound quality than my 595s can offer. 

post #10 of 19

Ahh that's gonna be bloody difficult, prolly gotta play around with some transformer options or try and find a nice deal on an old school stax transformer box. You're going to need a speaker amp if you don't already have one.

 

So unless you're just doing this for the lols, I wouldn't bother.

post #11 of 19
Thread Starter 

I'm doing it for some combination of the lols and the sound. I usually love DIY and taking things completely apart and putting them back together, but thats only worth about a hundred or so dollars to me. I saw there was an amp on the headwize DIY electrostat project, but I saw it used tubes so I just skipped it, tubes cause inherent distortion that I'm trying to avoid. Is there an easy way to convert a tube design to SS?

post #12 of 19

It's best not to assume tubes=distortion. It's all about the application of the tube in the circuit design.

 

For instance, the KGSS (which is solid-state) and it's THD is less than 0.008%, whereas the Blue Hawaii has tubes in it and it's THD is less than 0.004%!

 

I'd just build or buy whatever cheapest amp I could and just get cracking building the headphone, I think you can agree that changes in the headphone will make the most difference sonically anyway.

post #13 of 19
Thread Starter 

Well its not THD I'm concerned about, non-linear headphones cause more THD than the amplifier and DAC combined do. Its more a matter of that "warm" sound that tubes have that I'm wary of. I could settle for tubes anyway, because the headphones are where the biggest difference is. I'll just check the price on the headwize amp and I'll just settle for that.

 

Thanks

post #14 of 19

Both are ruler flat by the way.

 

Good luck, it should be heaps fun building and tweaking the headphones to get the perfect sound you're after.

post #15 of 19

Tube amps can be made to sound "tubey" and they can be made to sound like nothing at all, it depends on the topology of the amp and what goals the designer has set.

If you are concerned about thd then for memory the exstata's is orders of magnitude higher than the kgss.

 

As I said before the easiest and quickest way to get up and running would be to build a small transformer box and a simple bias supply.

This would be less than 10 components and as long as you wire things in the right place, next to impossible to blow up.

It also has the advantage of being cheap.

You then connect this box to what ever amp you use to drive your speakers and voila~  a stax amp.

 

Believe it or not Kevin Gilmore's AC coupled all-triode direct drive amp (i.e. the Woo Audio GES / WES) would probably be easier to build compared to the kgss on perfboard.

It sounds very good to boot.


Edited by nattonrice - 7/14/11 at 5:32am
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