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post #31 of 52


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WobblyGoblin View Post

I like how my post was just completely ignored, admittedly I did just edit it and add in the last two paragraphs but that's no excuse for outright ignoring it as the key points were in the first paragraphs and the rest was just responding to a completely baseless accusation and elaborating some more on how this should be seen but often isn't.



You are sidetracking this into a discussion about competition, and this is not about competition. Competition exists with or without the mythical values being placed on the Chinese made stuff with slick marketing. Your argument is just not relevant to me in the least to this discussion. Your cell phone argument is also not relevant. Compete ion is always going level a playing field in a market, but your cell phone situation is the way it is because technology in manufacturing microprocessors has allowed for producing much more for much less in cost. 

post #32 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billyjoegunrack View Post


 



You are sidetracking this into a discussion about competition, and this is not about competition. Competition exists with or without the mythical values being placed on the Chinese made stuff with slick marketing. Your argument is just not relevant to me in the least to this discussion. Your cell phone argument is also not relevant. Compete ion is always going level a playing field in a market, but your cell phone situation is the way it is because technology in manufacturing microprocessors has allowed for producing much more for much less in cost. 


Not at all, this was a discussion about profit. I just said profit encourages competition and that's good for all of us. What is it that drove them to improve the technology? The potential for profit from having an advantage over their competitors.

 

You may not like their profit level, but again, who are you or I to question the value their customers see in those overpriced IEMs? 

 


Edited by WobblyGoblin - 7/9/11 at 5:53pm
post #33 of 52


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WobblyGoblin View Post




Not at all, this was a discussion about profit. I just said profit encourages competition and that's good for all of us. What is it that drove them to improve the technology? The potential for profit from having an advantage over their competitors.

 

You may not like their profit level, but again, who are you or I to question the value they see in those overpriced IEMs? 

 



As a conscious human being it is fundamental to question everything and anything. Who are you to tell me I can't or shouldn't?

 

post #34 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billyjoegunrack View Post


 



As a conscious human being it is fundamental to question everything and anything. Who are you to tell me I can't or shouldn't?

 


 

I didn't tell you anything. There's quite clearly a question mark which denotes it as a question.

post #35 of 52

Well not to contribute towards this off topic argument here, but i have nothing against Made in China products.. For instance, my Unique Melody customs ARE originated in China and MADE in china. Anywho my fav Custom IEM is my custom, first and only in the world (i hope), UM SCL3X triple driver custom. Universal has to be Ety ER4 and Earsonics SM3 (V2 but i haven't tried yet). And lastly, earbud has to be Yuin PK1.

post #36 of 52

Wow, thread off-topic much?

 

popcorn.gif

post #37 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billyjoegunrack View Post

You are sidetracking this into a discussion about competition, and this is not about competition. Competition exists with or without the mythical values being placed on the Chinese made stuff with slick marketing. Your argument is just not relevant to me in the least to this discussion. Your cell phone argument is also not relevant. Compete ion is always going level a playing field in a market, but your cell phone situation is the way it is because technology in manufacturing microprocessors has allowed for producing much more for much less in cost. 


I will end my participation in this thread with a final retort.

 

You seem to have a personal vendetta against products made in China. Why is that? The manufacturing power of China is no longer what it was ten years ago. It is their factories that churn out precision milled MacBooks and iPhones. Why has manufacturing quality improved so much in China? Because their clients demanded it. Such is the force of the free market.

 

If a manufacturer sells you goods that are not up to the quality that you expect for the price you pay, you have the choice to buy something else. The location where it is produced isn't relevant. Chinese made stuff with slick marketing? You're preaching to the choir with that one, and while there are people who buy that junk, it certainly isn't our problem.

post #38 of 52

Billy, no one cares. It's pretty evident.

 

And the discussion was never about competition. Or IEMs being overpriced. Or whatever. I like how you accuse others of sidetracking the topic when you are the prime culprit who went on a rant. Yes, IEMs may be overpriced and you may be the foremost expert in the world about it. I'm not going to stop buying them, regardless of origin of manufacture, and nobody else here is either. Why don't you give it a rest.

 

Going back on topic, probably all the usual suspects in the "top-tier" will be the the "best" to at least some people - even when you move onto customs there will be several contenders sitting at the highest tier. Something like:

 

Universals: W4, UM3X, SM3, e-Q5/7, GR10, EX1000, FX700, SE530/5, IE8, TF10, MPTC/MDT, ATHCK10/CK100, blah blah

Lols: Final Audio Fi-BA-SS, DC1601 series, FAD in general

Customs: JH13/16, UERM/18, ES5/ES3X, UM Miracle/Merlin, 1964-T/Q, and I'm sure there are others


Edited by Omnirai - 7/9/11 at 8:50pm
post #39 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by guido View Post

ETY ER4s


Still going strong since 1991. Enough said etysmile.gif

 

post #40 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnirai View Post

Billy, no one cares. It's pretty evident.

 

And the discussion was never about competition. Or IEMs being overpriced. Or whatever. I like how you accuse others of sidetracking the topic when you are the prime culprit who went on a rant. Yes, IEMs may be overpriced and you may be the foremost expert in the world about it. I'm not going to stop buying them, regardless of origin of manufacture, and nobody else here is either. Why don't you give it a rest.

 

Going back on topic, probably all the usual suspects in the "top-tier" will be the the "best" to at least some people - even when you move onto customs there will be several contenders sitting at the highest tier. Something like:

 

Universals: W4, UM3X, SM3, e-Q5/7, GR10, EX1000, FX700, SE530/5, IE8, TF10, MPTC/MDT, ATHCK10/CK100, blah blah

Lols: Final Audio Fi-BA-SS, DC1601 series, FAD in general

Customs: JH13/16, UERM/18, ES5/ES3X, UM Miracle/Merlin, 1964-T/Q, and I'm sure there are others

 

Let me ask you something, why do you think the EX1000 costs so much more than the EX600 when they are made and sound so similarly?

 

I will tell you why. Sony would not have the gall to call a product their flagship, throw a $500 price tag on it, and then send it over and have it made for pennies in China. They took a very similar product, sent it away to be bargain basement manufactured, and put a respectable price point on it. Both of these phones are both very profitable, but Sony is treating you with some respect, and when they say they are giving you their best, that is what they do. They are doing business with at least some semblance of integrity, and treating you like you aren't stupid.

 

Japan, US, and Germany know how to manufacture like no other places in the world, and when an American company calls something a flagship, throws a $450 price tag on it, and then sends it off to be mass produced in China, they are treating you like you are stupid. A $450 flagship product made in China is simply not acceptable, and they are a disgrace for doing that. Westone don't dare try that with their professional line. They make those all in the US, and charge less money, why do you think this is? Where things are manufactured matters, and perhaps they respect the intelligence of the professional customer much more than they do the "consumer."  You know something, they are right, because watching some of you people defend this practice proves this to be the case. 
 

 


Edited by Billyjoegunrack - 7/9/11 at 9:42pm
post #41 of 52

Not too long ago Made in Japan had the same cheap ring to it as Made in China does now. The US itself built its manufacturing base on making cheap copies of other countries goods and the same quality improvements will be seen in China. Suck it up Nancy, stuff is made everywhere.


Edited by WobblyGoblin - 7/9/11 at 11:11pm
post #42 of 52

Okay Okay hold up man.
I've read the last few posts and I'm pretty **** insulted by your bashful comments cause I'm Chinese.

Yes China isn't exactly a country known for its high quality of production and QCs.

But "when an American company calls something a flagship, throws a $450 price tag on it, and then sends it off to be mass produced in China, they are treating you like you are stupid."
Really? Do you honestly think China is still THAT bad?
Personally I am a Business and Management Student and during April of this year, we had a school trip to visit a few factories in China, Obviously those few factories can't represent the whole of the manufacturing segment of China but let me tell you it isn't as bad as you think it is.

You sir seem to have a tremendous amount of Bias against Chinese Manufacturers, in a way that its nearly racist.

Finally I would like to say. Does it matter if it was made in Germany or China or any other country? Does it REALLY matter that much? Does it really matter that the prices companies charge us is a lot higher than the cost of producing it?
As long as the people that purchase them like the product it doesn't mind.
You may be thinking "Oh you're wasting money and the money you're paying to the companies actually exceed what you get" But hey, did we ask for your opinion? Furthermore you may feel like we are getting "ripped off" but hey, if we can afford being ripped off is that really a problem? 

If the consumer buys the product from the producer and he/she is happy with it, then its all good.
It's not like its price discrimination. 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billyjoegunrack View Post



 

Let me ask you something, why do you think the EX1000 costs so much more than the EX600 when they are made and sound so similarly?

 

I will tell you why. Sony would not have the gall to call a product their flagship, throw a $500 price tag on it, and then send it over and have it made for pennies in China. They took a very similar product, sent it away to be bargain basement manufactured, and put a respectable price point on it. Both of these phones are both very profitable, but Sony is treating you with some respect, and when they say they are giving you their best, that is what they do. They are doing business with at least some semblance of integrity, and treating you like you aren't stupid.

 

Japan, US, and Germany know how to manufacture like no other places in the world, and when an American company calls something a flagship, throws a $450 price tag on it, and then sends it off to be mass produced in China, they are treating you like you are stupid. A $450 flagship product made in China is simply not acceptable, and they are a disgrace for doing that. Westone don't dare try that with their professional line. They make those all in the US, and charge less money, why do you think this is? Where things are manufactured matters, and perhaps they respect the intelligence of the professional customer much more than they do the "consumer."  You know something, they are right, because watching some of you people defend this practice proves this to be the case. 
 

 



 


Edited by ArrigoShred - 7/10/11 at 1:44am
post #43 of 52

Lets say you know the exact price for materials, but do you know the costs of marketting?

 

 

Dr. John Moulton

Here at Noble, we craft some of the finest universal and custom in-ear monitors available today. 

post #44 of 52

Following on from what Fullcircle said.

Okay so you know the price of Materials, do you know the costs of marketing, the potential value of their brand image and company reputation, the costs of distribution and so on?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FullCircle View Post

Lets say you know the exact price for materials, but do you know the costs of marketting?

 

 



 

post #45 of 52

Yes, these things can rapidly escalate to painful levels. Another dirty secret is, MOQ.  Minimum order of quantity. A lot of companies require that you order very large volumes of items before they will do business with you.

 

For example, you need some cable for your headset, you may be expected to order 3000 meters before they would do business with you.  So by the time you are ready to begin to sell your product, you could be theoritically, already in debt 500K USD.

 

 

Dr. John Moulton

Here at Noble, we craft some of the finest universal and custom in-ear monitors available today. 

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