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Best IEM - Page 2  

post #16 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billyjoegunrack View Post

Yes, I understand every bit of it, and your attempt to try and sugar coat and justify falls flat on its arse to me. I know exactly what is going on, so don't try and BS me. This is a freaking gravy train, and anyone who tries to tell you different is lying.


I don't understand. Why would I BS you? You're missing the big picture. In fact, it was never even a question of how much it costs to make an IEM. Manufacturers make IEMs. They set a price that they think people will pay for them. If people buy them at that price, then a fair trade has been done and both the buyer and the seller profit. If another company thinks it can make similar quality IEMs and price them lower to sell more, they can. Such is competition, and such is the free market.

 

I encourage you to think of all the costs needed to even get from nothing to manufacturing the first pair of IEMs. Otherwise, you're just complaining because you want something for less than the price listed.

post #17 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soaa- View Post


I don't understand. Why would I BS you? You're missing the big picture. In fact, it was never even a question of how much it costs to make an IEM. Manufacturers make IEMs. They set a price that they think people will pay for them. If people buy them at that price, then a fair trade has been done and both the buyer and the seller profit. If another company thinks it can make similar quality IEMs and price them lower to sell more, they can. Such is competition, and such is the free market.

 

I encourage you to think of all the costs needed to even get from nothing to manufacturing the first pair of IEMs. Otherwise, you're just complaining because you want something for less than the price listed.


I encourage you to understand that I worked a manufacturing engineer, liaison engineer between manufacturing and r+d, worked for large corps, and small boutiques. I know the whole process from the jump to the finish. I know what things cost, I know what the ROI is on these things. It is my life's work to know these things. So you sitting trying to explain this to me and soft peddle this is almost an insult, because I know what all the costs are.

 

There is a pretty healthy disdain around here for Monster Cable because people know how they run their business. All these headphone manufacturers are doing the exact same thing. I am not saying it is wrong, they do it because they can. A free market dictates you get as much for your product as the market will pay.

 

The reason these products get so much in the market, is because their is a ton of ignorance in people that allows these companies to elevate their products to an artificial, and exorbitantly high value. This is all a marketing game, the same one Monster plays with their ridiculous margins. If people knew the truth, the price points would plummet, and these people would still be making large profits.  I know the costs, and I still participate in the game, because I enjoy the products. I just do it knowing full well what kind of margin I am dealing with. It is maddening when a company charges 350 for a headphone made in china, and I see all the little corners that are cut in the product design, and then you get poor warranty service at the end of it all.  

 

I am not complaining, I am stating facts. This may be a bit uncomfortable for some of the people in the business to see stated in a place like this, but the truth hurts sometimes. 

 


Edited by Billyjoegunrack - 7/9/11 at 3:46pm
post #18 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soaa- View Post


I don't understand. Why would I BS you? You're missing the big picture. In fact, it was never even a question of how much it costs to make an IEM. Manufacturers make IEMs. They set a price that they think people will pay for them. If people buy them at that price, then a fair trade has been done and both the buyer and the seller profit. If another company thinks it can make similar quality IEMs and price them lower to sell more, they can. Such is competition, and such is the free market.

 

I encourage you to think of all the costs needed to even get from nothing to manufacturing the first pair of IEMs. Otherwise, you're just complaining because you want something for less than the price listed.


you sir, are my current favourite internet person (means more than that sounds smily_headphones1.gif ). Logic and economics don't go together often enough these days.

People don't realise that high profits encourage competition which is good for all of us. if people don't like the prices then they're not forced to pay them, they can buy lower end models and be quite happy, I am. We all benefit from the improvements that lower end headphones gain from competing with higher end. Not many years ago you could only get isolating headphones for significant amounts of money (not so significant on head fi). Now many cheap panasonics have them. competition is great.
post #19 of 52


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by WobblyGoblin View Post



you sir, are my current favourite internet person (means more than that sounds smily_headphones1.gif ). Logic and economics don't go together often enough these days.

People don't realise that high profits encourage competition which is good for all of us. if people don't like the prices then they're not forced to pay them, they can buy lower end models and be quite happy, I am. We all benefit from the improvements that lower end headphones gain from competing with higher end. Not many years ago you could only get isolating headphones for significant amounts of money (not so significant on head fi). Now many cheap panasonics have them. competition is great.


I know I always feel good when my fellow man is being preyed upon with marketing schemes and pay exorbitant rates for things because they are intentionally being kept ignorant. Consumers too uninformed to make decisions based on facts instead of fancy marketing schemes is only good for a very select group of people. Lets keep this going and maybe we can get into some numbers for the group, what do you think? I can be your least favorite person on the internet if you want to play this game. Competition is great, way to deflect with a load of bs. You wouldn't be one of the industry pumpers on here would you? Speaking of logic, normal hard working consumers would tend not to celebrate the high prices they pay as good for themselves unless they had an agenda.


Edited by Billyjoegunrack - 7/9/11 at 4:53pm
post #20 of 52

What do I think? I think "Caveat emptor".

 

No one's forcing these people to hand over their money any more than you're forced to use a pair of relatively expensive IEMs over the free apple earbuds, yet you choose to do so because it has some value for you. Those people also see some value in their purchases. It may not be the same value as you or I see, and there may be some cases of "a fool and their money are easily parted" involved, but who are you, or I, to second guess that? It is their money after all...

 

oh, and no, I'm not an "industry pumper". I'm just a person who understands that a company I buy something from makes a profit. They make something I want to buy, so that's fine by me. That profit goes, in part, to developing new products and allowing that company to compete further. 

 

My cell phone is as powerful as the computer I bought ten years ago, and cost half as much. Why? Competition pushed them to make things better. Both companies mentioned made a profit too... I could use a cheap crappy cellphone but I quite like being able to read head-fi and other websites on the bus. I get a phone I want and this is what I celebrate, while they get the money they want. Who's losing again?


Edited by WobblyGoblin - 7/9/11 at 5:19pm
post #21 of 52

A gravy train?  Maybe for some.  No disrespect but it can be a very tough business and you need to turn a healthy profit to keep producing.

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/02/ff_madeinamerica/all/1

post #22 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

A gravy train?  Maybe for some.  No disrespect but it can be a very tough business and you need to turn a healthy profit to keep producing.

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/02/ff_madeinamerica/all/1


These guys making junk in China that is difficult to QC have no shame. Put it this way, an IEM costing three hundred dollars being blown out by factories in China is a ridiculous notion that should never happen.  This would never happen if people understood what is really going on. If these guys put their products into production in the US, Germany, or Japan, you wouldn't here me say a word about it. The products would be much closer to hyped up value if they had the decency to do this. But, these people go the China route and charge you like they aren't. Believe me, if you were in the line of work I am in, you wouldn't be saying what you are. There is a reason there are literally hundreds of companies throwing out earbuds as far as the eye can see.

post #23 of 52

I like how my post was just completely ignored, admittedly I did just edit it and add in the last two paragraphs but that's no excuse for outright ignoring it as the key points were in the first paragraphs and the rest was just responding to a completely baseless accusation and elaborating some more on how this should be seen but often isn't.

post #24 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by WobblyGoblin View Post

I like how my post was just completely ignored, admittedly I did just edit it and add in the last two paragraphs but that's no excuse for outright ignoring it as the key points were in the first paragraphs and the rest was just responding to a completely baseless accusation and elaborating some more on how this should be seen but often isn't.



Well you ask a loaded question and get a bunch of angry answers.  What more can you ask for?

Edit: Oops, I thought you were the OP!  Oh well.

 

My favorites are Sony EX1000, Westone 4 and JVC HA-FX700.


Edited by shotgunshane - 7/9/11 at 5:34pm
post #25 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billyjoegunrack View Post




These guys making junk in China that is difficult to QC have no shame. Put it this way, an IEM costing three hundred dollars being blown out by factories in China is a ridiculous notion that should never happen.  This would never happen if people understood what is really going on. If these guys put their products into production in the US, Germany, or Japan, you wouldn't here me say a word about it. The products would be much closer to hyped up value if they had the decency to do this. But, these people go the China route and charge you like they aren't. Believe me, if you were in the line of work I am in, you wouldn't be saying what you are. There is a reason there are literally hundreds of companies throwing out earbuds as far as the eye can see.


Well then there is no place else this discussion can go.

 

post #26 of 52

content removed due subsequent comment :D


Edited by WobblyGoblin - 7/9/11 at 5:38pm
post #27 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by WobblyGoblin View Post




I asked loaded questions?

 


I mistook you for the OP.  I added an edit. tongue.gif

 

post #28 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post





Well you ask a loaded question and get a bunch of angry answers.  What more can you ask for?

Edit: Oops, I thought you were the OP!  Oh well.

 

My favorites are Sony EX1000, Westone 4 and JVC HA-FX700.


None of which are produced in China, imagine my shock.

 

post #29 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billyjoegunrack View Post




None of which are produced in China, imagine my shock.

 


Yet all sold at a price in excess of their cost of manufacturing, otherwise known as a profit. This is the point of your rant, remember?

 

Also, still ignoring my post? 

post #30 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billyjoegunrack View Post




None of which are produced in China, imagine my shock.

 


The W4 is made in China and EX1000 cable is made in China.  Westone makes their UM line in the States.

 

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