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post #76 of 88

after playing around with my new Cowon J3 and J3 + Fiio E17.....  I think i like the J3's BBE a little more than just keeping it normal + E17 amp +Treble +Bass (which is how i normally amp other sources).

 

I really like the E17, but I kinda feel the J3 doesn't need it...and with the J3, I feel like I could do without the E17 amp..... :O  Similar feeling that I get with my Galaxy S / rooted with Voodoo... 

 

For $140 that the E17 cost, I think there is very marginal gain for either J3 and Galaxy S.  This might be because I have learned I like a more warm sound.  I don't miss my iPod 5.5g which was way more neutral/cold sounding....which i DID like better with the E17.  But J3 by itself with BBE... or Galaxy S with Voodoo......I like more than the iPod + E17. 

 

This said--the E17 is more refined and is awesome in general.  People who don't love a warmer Cowon sound I'm sure would love it--and it's getting well deserved hype on these boards. 

 

I'll probably be looking to sell the E17 and either J3 or Galaxy S.  I find the J3 drives my 250ohm dt880 just fine.  I think as well as my hybrid Tube amp (trends pa-10) which I sold.  My next step is probably to get a serious tube amp like the Little Dot MK3--but I don't expect to be blown away by improvement. 


Edited by hyogen - 5/5/12 at 12:20am
post #77 of 88

After reading this thread I am still confused. EQ aside, is the BBE setting useful for expensive headphones/buds? If I'm trying to get the closest representation of the sound, should I be adjusting these settings? Is it just artificially better?


Edited by NonApplicable - 7/31/12 at 5:24am
post #78 of 88

You can blame the Wolfson chip that is found in Cowon products for their incredible auditory quality that is incomparable to the JetAudio program you may use on your desktop

post #79 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonApplicable View Post

After reading this thread I am still confused. EQ aside, is the BBE setting useful for expensive headphones/buds? If I'm trying to get the closest representation of the sound, should I be adjusting these settings? Is it just artificially better?

Sometimes BBE  helps to "fix" the sound of the headphone, and sometimes it's better to not touch it.

I'm not sure it's about getting a more "accurate" sound, but just listen to different music and adjust settings, until it match your taste.

For my senn IE7, BBE  provided a great improvement, for my  yamaha eph-100 , it  did more harm than something else.


Edited by extrabigmehdi - 12/15/12 at 6:32pm
post #80 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by NonApplicable View Post

After reading this thread I am still confused. EQ aside, is the BBE setting useful for expensive headphones/buds? If I'm trying to get the closest representation of the sound, should I be adjusting these settings? Is it just artificially better?

 

It's useful if it makes your listening experience better. *Any* DAP is going to color the sound somewhere between the audio file (mp3, flac, whatever) and the output jack. The notion of running a DAP "flat" doesn't really exist - it can only be flat for that specific player. To think that because a DAP is being run without EQ means that the output is closer to the original recording is just plain wrong. If anything, good EQ gives you more control so you *can* adjust the sound to match the original. It also means you can adjust the sound match your personal preference.

post #81 of 88
I've used and enjoyed the BBE presets on my J3 extensively. My main listening is with my Westone 4 IEMs and DT1350.

A funny thing happened recently though, I've started listening to everything with flat or no EQ after reading someone say that's how the recording was intended to be heard (and since both my headphones/IEMs were pretty neutral anyway, not needing much compensation).

I tried some of the BBE third-party players on an iPod Touch 5, but really missed the 20+ presets on the J3 which none matched.

My DAP atm is a Walkman F800-series. I have started to experiment with equalising manually since Neutron trends to blow out some freqs a bit.

My takeaway is that on a good neutral player, headphones and recording, EQing shouldnt be necessary, our only minimal.

The problem is that everyone has different ears, equipment and recordings. Also, many of us haven't a clue where to start manually equalizing (anyone have a guide?). Thus, the flexibility of BBE really stands out to get the sound to the right levels for your setup.
post #82 of 88

From my experience with cowon product all their EQs shorten the soundstage. Having said that they're probably the best presets on the market, definetly ways better than what is found in the iPods/iPhones. But they can't really be concidering for sirious listening sessions, especially when you have some good headphones.

post #83 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by severim View Post

I've started listening to everything with flat or no EQ after reading someone say that's how the recording was intended to be heard (and since both my headphones/IEMs were pretty neutral anyway, not needing much compensation).

I respectfully and politely disagree 100% with whoever wrote that. They are wrong. Consider the following scenario - a DAP manufacturer has a particular model that produces a certain sound with no EQ whatsoever. Then, for whatever reason, they change vendors for one or more of the components in that DAP. The DAP with the different components now produces a sound that is slightly different than the previous model. Comparatively, the sound may be warmer (or colder), more punchy, (or less punchy) etc. So now - you have two of the exact same model DAP, that have slightly different components inside, that produce a slightly different sound. Which one is more true to the original recording? There's no way to tell unless you were in the studio at the time of recording! Even if the recording was a live recording at a club, different sound engineers will produce different recordings due to differences in their choices (mic brand, mic placement, levels, etc)

 

An even simpler example would be two DAPs from different manufacturers. When both are played flat, they will no doubt have different sound signatures. Again - which one is the more accurate and the truest to the original? Same answer - ther is no way to know that. 

 

Having said all that, my point is that good EQ allows you to do a few things. One is to tailor the sound to match what the original performance sounded like. (of course that assumes you were present at the recording)  The other is that good EQ allows you to tailor the sound to your own preferences, or maybe to overcome something you don't like in your gear. I had Grado SR325i's. They are a very clear, crisp, and in my opinion too bright sounding phone. Great for classical, not so much for jazz, IMO. Good EQ allows the high end attenuation that couldn't be done otherwise. If I didn't use EQ, and listened "flat", does that mean I was hearing the recording as it was meant to be? Of course not.

 

So EQ away, enjoy your music, and don't get caught up in the "flat is most accurate" philosophy that is just not true.

post #84 of 88

I have the old school iAudio X5, and the difference between turning on BBE and not turning it on is huge if you are playing 128kbps MP3. However, recently I just started changing my collection to FLAC, and there is almost no noticeable difference with BBe or without BBE for FLAC.

post #85 of 88

Here's how I'll describe the jeteffects  settings:

mach3bass ---> perception of impact on bass (some says the digizoid zo, does a better a job)

"bbe" ---> making the treble more sharp, harsh if overdone.

Otherwise I  play with stereo separation, together with eq, until I  get most pleasant imaging.

A slight reverb might help if it's sound too analytical, or dry.

There's the "mp3 enhance" setting supposed to repair too much compressed mp3,

but I  never use it, not convinced.

post #86 of 88

I use the J3 and BBE settings with my Ety ER4.  In 15 years of using 7 or 8 DAPs, the J3 + BBE is the best one I've heard that enhances the sound without distorting it -- and the ER4 would certainly reveal any noticeable distortion.

 

BBE is like many things -- if you use it in moderation (don't shove everything up to 10), you can get a fantastic sounding DAP, and you can create a consistent tone to several different ear/headphones.  It lets you store 4 total BBE + EQ settings for 4 different ear/headphones, and I use all 4 for my 4 main ear/headphones.

 

Sanctimonious talk about ruining the purity of sound by using enhancements and EQ is silly.  Every single piece of electronic circuitry does something to the sound that comes to your ears, not to mention the sound signature of each ear/headphone.

 

Use it, just don't over-use it.

post #87 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlatNine View Post

I respectfully and politely disagree 100% with whoever wrote that. They are wrong. Consider the following scenario - a DAP manufacturer has a particular model that produces a certain sound with no EQ whatsoever. Then, for whatever reason, they change vendors for one or more of the components in that DAP. The DAP with the different components now produces a sound that is slightly different than the previous model. Comparatively, the sound may be warmer (or colder), more punchy, (or less punchy) etc. So now - you have two of the exact same model DAP, that have slightly different components inside, that produce a slightly different sound. Which one is more true to the original recording? There's no way to tell unless you were in the studio at the time of recording! Even if the recording was a live recording at a club, different sound engineers will produce different recordings due to differences in their choices (mic brand, mic placement, levels, etc)

An even simpler example would be two DAPs from different manufacturers. When both are played flat, they will no doubt have different sound signatures. Again - which one is the more accurate and the truest to the original? Same answer - ther is no way to know that. 

Having said all that, my point is that good EQ allows you to do a few things. One is to tailor the sound to match what the original performance sounded like. (of course that assumes you were present at the recording)  The other is that good EQ allows you to tailor the sound to your own preferences, or maybe to overcome something you don't like in your gear. I had Grado SR325i's. They are a very clear, crisp, and in my opinion too bright sounding phone. Great for classical, not so much for jazz, IMO. Good EQ allows the high end attenuation that couldn't be done otherwise. If I didn't use EQ, and listened "flat", does that mean I was hearing the recording as it was meant to be? Of course not.

So EQ away, enjoy your music, and don't get caught up in the "flat is most accurate" philosophy that is just not true.

Thank you for the sensible counter-argument. I'd subscribed to the "no EQ preserves the originally intended sound" largely because I figured my equipment was fairly neutral (according to reports).

Now, where can I find a good beginners introduction to EQing?
post #88 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyogen View Post
 

after playing around with my new Cowon J3 and J3 + Fiio E17.....  I think i like the J3's BBE a little more than just keeping it normal + E17 amp +Treble +Bass (which is how i normally amp other sources).

 

I really like the E17, but I kinda feel the J3 doesn't need it...and with the J3, I feel like I could do without the E17 amp..... :O  Similar feeling that I get with my Galaxy S / rooted with Voodoo... 

 

For $140 that the E17 cost, I think there is very marginal gain for either J3 and Galaxy S.  This might be because I have learned I like a more warm sound.  I don't miss my iPod 5.5g which was way more neutral/cold sounding....which i DID like better with the E17.  But J3 by itself with BBE... or Galaxy S with Voodoo......I like more than the iPod + E17. 

 

This said--the E17 is more refined and is awesome in general.  People who don't love a warmer Cowon sound I'm sure would love it--and it's getting well deserved hype on these boards. 

 

I'll probably be looking to sell the E17 and either J3 or Galaxy S.  I find the J3 drives my 250ohm dt880 just fine.  I think as well as my hybrid Tube amp (trends pa-10) which I sold.  My next step is probably to get a serious tube amp like the Little Dot MK3--but I don't expect to be blown away by improvement. 


so you say you found more ,with BBE then e17 amp ;how about going a step further and try the dfx sound which according this forum its better then BBE ? http://ask.brothersoft.com/how-can-i-enhance-the-sound-effects-in-winamp-where-can-i-download-some-good-plugins-for-winamp-5423.html

and not done yet " you may go two step further and try the z03  "  ; http://www.head-fi.org/t/589201/digizoid-zo2-3-impression-discussion-thread/105

                                                                                                         http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66077&page=2

aside what the other posters say ,would love to hear your say on it as well :"

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