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SR60-Mod part II - Page 208

post #3106 of 3326
Quote:
Originally Posted by KneelJung View Post


Yeah I sort of posited this a while back to Kojaku. I even started a thread talking about my love of Grado's, and a growing infatuation at the the time with my modded T50's...A Grado Head With a Fostex Fetish. I think alot of Grado heads went to the LCD2 as well, and then there are the Hifiman offerings which have been garnering a lot of attention lately too. I know of at least one Grado modder that first went Magnum, and has now completely divorced himself from the Grado sound, who as a result of trying ortho's, sold all his Grado cans, and his Magnums both. This is much more than a FOTM musiclover when you consider the orthodynamic roundup thread has been active since it's inception in 05. You also have the success and acclaim of the LCD2. I think there is probably something to this ortho thing musiclover, just sayin.


Yeah, I know you're talking about Wayne smily_headphones1.gif. I honestly keep my Grado's around to remind me of how I started. They can't really compete with the top-flight orthos...

The Magnum V4 has far less hot treble than previous iterations, but it still has that essential Grado sound. The bass is not very extended, and only slightly pressurized (meaning it lacks heft). Of course, the big thing it lacks compared to even mid-fi orthos like the Thunderpants, is grainless sound. Dynamic drivers have always had the limitation of not being as jet black as orthos.

Compared to the TP1, magnum V4s don't have nearly the extension. When fed right, TP1s can RUMBLE. Not the best bass I've ever heard, but then again, I own LCD-2s....still very good. The V4s are more lively, but I attribute that to slightly hotter than normal treble. The imaging is a tad bit breathier, with more space for each voice in the image. When comparing the TP1s to magnums, neutrality vs liveliness is really the debate.

Compared to the HiFiMan offerings, there's little that can be said, I find HiFiMan cans a bit to sharp on the attack, but they're very good, especially the HE-500 for the price. The cans are quick. They render cymbals, high voices with astonishing clarity. The mids are a bit unnatural to me, but again...LCD-2s. The Magnums just don't have the same speed, spaciousness, and imaging as the HiFiMan offerings.

Compared to LCD-2s, there's really no contest. It's a movement from lively and somewhat hot to natural, natural, natural. I though Grado mids were liquid. Nope, they're lush, overly warm compared to LCD-2 mids. Now, the hotter treble gives people a sense of macro detail on the V4s, but the natural, extended treble of the LCD-2s is just so much more easy to take in. You don't struggle to hear the splash and ring of far away cymbals. There's a realism that just isn't there on dynamics. Bass, you know the story.

All-in-all, the ortho family just draws more out of recordings. They satisfy with wide, expansive imaging or ridiculous dynamic pacing, or extension in both directions, or pitch-black rendering background. There's just so much more to take in...

I began my head-fi life as a Grado-head...but since my first ortho taste, Grados have been a fond memory more than a viable alternative...of course, I still offer all the advice I can to new Grado heads. That's what I came in hi-fi doing smily_headphones1.gif

Kojaku
post #3107 of 3326
Quote:
Originally Posted by t-crisis View Post

 

Then perhaps you could answer a question that has burning in the back of my mind for quite some time.... Could you give me a rough comparison of any of the pairs I listed below that you have heard both or know a lot about both?

 

Magnum v4 vs. T50RP/Thunderpants

 

Magnum v4 vs. LCD2/3                                                                              <---- or a comparison between the 3 orthos

 

Magnum v4 vs. HE-500/HE-5LE/HE-6 or whatever equivalent Hifiman

 

I don't have any listening experience outside of Grado really, and zero with planar headphones so any input would help. I'm really curious and thinking about picking up a pair.

 

I had the Magnum v.4 with wooden cups.  Actually, 2 pair of them and a pair of HF-2s.  Slowly, I had been selling off the Grados to try something else.  I had my last pair of wooden Magnum v.4 headphones that I sent to an inviduals for a week to test to see what the Magnum sound was like.  Meanwhile, I used my HifiMAN HE-400s and my Fostex T50RP (Modified) headphones.  When the Magnums came back to me, I really found out how far I had distanced myself by getting acclimated with the HE-400s and HE-5LE.  The T50RP is a different beast with even more of a warmer signature, and less detail.  However, the HE-400s retained most of the detail that I was used to with the Grado / Magnum set ups, but really improved upon the bass to a different level.  I then looked at the Magnums and realized that they were some gorgeous looking headphones, but in all seriousness, couldn't see myself reaching for them as my first choice.  So, I put them up for sale.

 

I really don't want to imply or push my beliefs of one technology vs. another in this situation.  But, for me, I had just become more acclimated to the ortho sound - especially what HifiMAN was offering.  Due to this acclimation that I had developed, the Magnums were just something that presented the sound different to me.  It's not that the sound was presented in a bad way, just in a manner that I had grown to like.  Had I not tried the ortho headphones, I'd probably still be quite happy with owning my Magnums.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KneelJung View Post


Yeah I sort of posited this a while back to Kojaku. I even started a thread talking about my love of Grado's, and a growing infatuation at the the time with my modded T50's...A Grado Head With a Fostex Fetish. I think alot of Grado heads went to the LCD2 as well, and then there are the Hifiman offerings which have been garnering a lot of attention lately too. I know of at least one Grado modder that first went Magnum, and has now completely divorced himself from the Grado sound, who as a result of trying ortho's, sold all his Grado cans, and his Magnums both. This is much more than a FOTM musiclover when you consider the orthodynamic roundup thread has been active since it's inception in 05. You also have the success and acclaim of the LCD2. I think there is probably something to this ortho thing musiclover, just sayin.

 

Believe me, I loved modding the Grados and Magnums.  I loved buying unfinished cups, then applying my own custom stain mixes to give the cups a distinct look.  In the end, though, I realized that there were quite a few steps involved to get a complete set all assembled and running right.  I certainly don't fault those individuals who seek $100 - $150 for such work and believe that is a realistic cost when you look at the time that's involved with finishing cups, building a new "Y" cable, the soldering, cutting the screen, chasing down the right headband and ear pads, etc.  But, again, I think I loved building the various versions that I did.  I loved the work - probably moreso than even the listening.  However, with the HifiMAN headphones since they essentially come "equipped" with the option of pleather or velour pads and a leather headband, more time is spent listening as opposed to agonizing over the next upgrade that I would have like to perform on the Grados or Magnums.

post #3108 of 3326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kojaku View Post


Yeah, I know you're talking about Wayne smily_headphones1.gif. I honestly keep my Grado's around to remind me of how I started. They can't really compete with the top-flight orthos...
The Magnum V4 has far less hot treble than previous iterations, but it still has that essential Grado sound. The bass is not very extended, and only slightly pressurized (meaning it lacks heft). Of course, the big thing it lacks compared to even mid-fi orthos like the Thunderpants, is grainless sound. Dynamic drivers have always had the limitation of not being as jet black as orthos.
Compared to the TP1, magnum V4s don't have nearly the extension. When fed right, TP1s can RUMBLE. Not the best bass I've ever heard, but then again, I own LCD-2s....still very good. The V4s are more lively, but I attribute that to slightly hotter than normal treble. The imaging is a tad bit breathier, with more space for each voice in the image. When comparing the TP1s to magnums, neutrality vs liveliness is really the debate.
Compared to the HiFiMan offerings, there's little that can be said, I find HiFiMan cans a bit to sharp on the attack, but they're very good, especially the HE-500 for the price. The cans are quick. They render cymbals, high voices with astonishing clarity. The mids are a bit unnatural to me, but again...LCD-2s. The Magnums just don't have the same speed, spaciousness, and imaging as the HiFiMan offerings.
Compared to LCD-2s, there's really no contest. It's a movement from lively and somewhat hot to natural, natural, natural. I though Grado mids were liquid. Nope, they're lush, overly warm compared to LCD-2 mids. Now, the hotter treble gives people a sense of macro detail on the V4s, but the natural, extended treble of the LCD-2s is just so much more easy to take in. You don't struggle to hear the splash and ring of far away cymbals. There's a realism that just isn't there on dynamics. Bass, you know the story.
All-in-all, the ortho family just draws more out of recordings. They satisfy with wide, expansive imaging or ridiculous dynamic pacing, or extension in both directions, or pitch-black rendering background. There's just so much more to take in...
I began my head-fi life as a Grado-head...but since my first ortho taste, Grados have been a fond memory more than a viable alternative...of course, I still offer all the advice I can to new Grado heads. That's what I came in hi-fi doing smily_headphones1.gif
Kojaku

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post

 

Believe me, I loved modding the Grados and Magnums.  I loved buying unfinished cups, then applying my own custom stain mixes to give the cups a distinct look.  In the end, though, I realized that there were quite a few steps involved to get a complete set all assembled and running right.  I certainly don't fault those individuals who seek $100 - $150 for such work and believe that is a realistic cost when you look at the time that's involved with finishing cups, building a new "Y" cable, the soldering, cutting the screen, chasing down the right headband and ear pads, etc.  But, again, I think I loved building the various versions that I did.  I loved the work - probably moreso than even the listening.  However, with the HifiMAN headphones since they essentially come "equipped" with the option of pleather or velour pads and a leather headband, more time is spent listening as opposed to agonizing over the next upgrade that I would have like to perform on the Grados or Magnums.

 

Yeah I loved modding my Grado's too, the time I spent in this thread, the stuff I learned, the experiences I had, the people I got know, it was good stuff. I can definitely see how people would gravitate to other headphone experiences though. Ultimately it's what drives this hobby. I have an opportunity to try some electrostats, which will be arriving soon. It will be interesting to see how they compare and contrast to the dynamic drivers, and ortho's I have. My gear is on one level pedestrian, but I think a lot of people look at even the modest amount of money I've spent on my audiophile journey as sort of eccentric. I've been listening to my T50's a lot the last couple of days and there is just something very compelling about the sound. I think you're right about the black background Kojaku, it's the thing that really draws me in. I've been thinking about parting with my HF2's to finance a new leg of my headphone journey lately, I had been thinking HE400, but with these electrostats coming who knows.

post #3109 of 3326
Quote:
Originally Posted by KneelJung View Post

Yeah I loved modding my Grado's too, the time I spent in this thread, the stuff I learned, the experiences I had, the people I got know, it was good stuff. I can definitely see how people would gravitate to other headphone experiences though. Ultimately it's what drives this hobby. I have an opportunity to try some electrostats, which will be arriving soon. It will be interesting to see how they compare and contrast to the dynamic drivers, and ortho's I have. My gear is on one level pedestrian, but I think a lot of people look at even the modest amount of money I've spent on my audiophile journey as sort of eccentric. I've been listening to my T50's a lot the last couple of days and there is just something very compelling about the sound. I think you're right about the black background Kojaku, it's the thing that really draws me in. I've been thinking about parting with my HF2's to finance a new leg of my headphone journey lately, I had been thinking HE400, but with these electrostats coming who knows.

 

I think those electrostats will be crying for some power from your H/K via speaker taps.  Seriously.  I was able to connect the H/K integrated amp up this weekend.  I had been relatively convinced that the headphone out section of vintage gear was solid and not pushed through separate op-amp sections like new receivers.  But, I think I was wrong.  Vintage gear makers did tap into the speaker lines for the headphone section, but they installed some resistors into the circuit, too.  On my H/K, I could hear much better sound with the speaker taps connected and running 4-pin XLR connectors.  I'm now convinced that is the only way to go ---- provided, one has enough discipline to keep the volume under control.  basshead.gif

post #3110 of 3326
Quote:
Originally Posted by wje View Post

 

I think those electrostats will be crying for some power from your H/K via speaker taps.  Seriously.  I was able to connect the H/K integrated amp up this weekend.  I had been relatively convinced that the headphone out section of vintage gear was solid and not pushed through separate op-amp sections like new receivers.  But, I think I was wrong.  Vintage gear makers did tap into the speaker lines for the headphone section, but they installed some resistors into the circuit, too.  On my H/K, I could hear much better sound with the speaker taps connected and running 4-pin XLR connectors.  I'm now convinced that is the only way to go ---- provided, one has enough discipline to keep the volume under control.  basshead.gif


Yeah I got a PM saying speaker taps would be necessary. The phones come with their own amp or something that requires a connection to speaker taps, definitely looking forward to hearing them. This all came about because I was poking around the FS forum looking for a pair of HE400's, and saw an old friend paring down his headphone collection. Anyway based on some of the comments I've seen yourself and others post, the HE400's seem very compelling. I really like my T50's, so I guess I'm looking for the same thing Chris was pondering the other day...more. The right channel went out on the T50 again tonight, so I'll have to open them tomorrow and apply some more of that paint. So now it's a Grado night with the HF2 and MOG, which I just signed up for. I'm starting to think buying CD's is not very cost efficient, when you can have a giant digital  library streaming at 320kps.

post #3111 of 3326

The DIY bug bites again, and I've had an idea (for drivers with wood inners and SR325 outers, but I need to find some SR325 outers first. Does anyone know where I could find a pair of silver, aluminum, or goldie (anything but chrome) SR325i cups at a good price?

post #3112 of 3326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickmonk View Post

The DIY bug bites again, and I've had an idea (for drivers with wood inners and SR325 outers, but I need to find some SR325 outers first. Does anyone know where I could find a pair of silver, aluminum, or goldie (anything but chrome) SR325i cups at a good price?

 

You might want to put up a "Want to Buy" notice in the F/S section of the forum here.  Every now and then, the metal cups become available for sale.

post #3113 of 3326
Quote:
Originally Posted by KneelJung View Post


Yeah I got a PM saying speaker taps would be necessary. The phones come with their own amp or something that requires a connection to speaker taps, definitely looking forward to hearing them. This all came about because I was poking around the FS forum looking for a pair of HE400's, and saw an old friend paring down his headphone collection. Anyway based on some of the comments I've seen yourself and others post, the HE400's seem very compelling. I really like my T50's, so I guess I'm looking for the same thing Chris was pondering the other day...more. The right channel went out on the T50 again tonight, so I'll have to open them tomorrow and apply some more of that paint. So now it's a Grado night with the HF2 and MOG, which I just signed up for. I'm starting to think buying CD's is not very cost efficient, when you can have a giant digital  library streaming at 320kps.

 

Not only that, the CD release future doesn't look very promising from what gets posted on Amazon.  Lately, I'm seeing a lot of imports being released and 10+ year old material get re-released.  So, it's either dig into the archives for some classic stuff, or grab a few here and there and only add about 2 to the collection each month.

 

I believe I saw a Fostex T50RP set of headphones not too long ago in the F/S section.  They were being sold because only one driver was working.  I can't recall the cost.  Also, in the past, I had checked with the Fostex distributor and they indicated that most music instrument retailers that sell Fostex headphones should be able to order a driver.  I believe the cost was $36.00.  Then again, at that price, you're nearly at 1/2 the cost of whole new pair.

 

Let me know if you need any assistance with the taps.

post #3114 of 3326

I think the natural progression is to move from Magnums to the heavy hitter orthos, I think I was one of the first along with WJE to do this :)

 

The difference is that, I still have my Magnums as they are a labor of love and I don't think the 400+ dollars I'd get for them would be worth all the blood, sweat, and tears I went through to make them happen. It was a lot of work between various entities to get them done. I'm just a cable guy, but I still needed cups, drivers, headband, etc and it was like a 2 months journey to get them made. I also did a lot of reading and posted a lot concerning these. I keep them sort of as a flagship in the collection since I'm proud that I have a headphone that was the result of love.

post #3115 of 3326
Quote:
Originally Posted by KimChee View Post

There's someone making really cheap unfinished cups on Ebay.

 

BEWARE!  The individual, Farvekiln, is actually JSChristian44 - who was a Member of the Trade here on this form with the company: Justin's Headphone Modding.

 

This person is now banned on this forum, and in the feedback on eBay under JSChristian44, has a lot of negative claims where people who purchased his Fostex T50RP "Maplepants" headphones have been requesting 100% refunds because of the junk that was built.  Additionally, his reason for being banned on this site is because he's collected cash (PayPal) and / or headphones to modify for other members and basically disappeared.  He's actually in Alaska for the summer doing some work, but it doesn't look good for most of the people who have paid him for work because he asked for PayPal "Gift" payments.

post #3116 of 3326

Another alert update.  Justin is selling wooden cups for Grado headphones under a new, 3rd eBay ID:

 

http://myworld.ebay.com/relient1128_2012/?_trksid=p4340.l2559

post #3117 of 3326

Anybody interested in a closed design using Grado shells and Koss KSC-75?

Look here -->

post #3118 of 3326

Hey guys, gunna revive an old thread. Im probably gunna buy some grados for myself finally. My question to you guys is, whether it be using symphones magnum drivers, or whatever. Im looking to get the best gradoish sound for the best bang for the buck. 

 

Im thinking take sr60s, replace drivers with magnums, and eventually replace with wood cups. Opinions? 

post #3119 of 3326

If you guys need cups, talk to Taiden (Luke Pighetti) I'm wearing a set of his cups now. They're quite good for the $100 price tag. He slotted them for me so I don't have to detach the cable. Basically all you'd need is an SR-60 and a butter knife and you can have woodies now.

 

I forgot what wood they are, they look kinda close to the Carribbean Rosewood thats on my LCD-2's though.

 

013.JPG

post #3120 of 3326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathdeisel View Post

Hey guys, gunna revive an old thread. Im probably gunna buy some grados for myself finally. My question to you guys is, whether it be using symphones magnum drivers, or whatever. Im looking to get the best gradoish sound for the best bang for the buck. 

 

Im thinking take sr60s, replace drivers with magnums, and eventually replace with wood cups. Opinions? 

 

Ok, so basically you can buy PS500's and probably be just as happy for $500. It'll have a warranty and the fun of instant gratification.

 

Or you can build your own headphone for fun using handbuilt parts and have something which in my opinion can compare to the LCD-2/HE-500 for the money in terms of sound. In terms of comfort and build quality though, it goes to those two LOL.

 

SR-60's + magnums + cups = around $400. You can upgrade cable, headband, and dynamat the magnet as well.

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