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All DAC's sound the same. - Page 7  

post #91 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by bisayaboi View Post



It's the same reasoning with DAC's. Do I really have to clarify everything?

 

The E9 is all power. It can drive any headphone that exists today. Headphone amps exist to amplify headphones and not to enhance sound in anyway.

Just like how DAC's only perform one function.

So what's the point in buying more expensive amps? I don't expect a straight-up answer from you but I bet someone else here will answer that for me.

Besides most opinion's on the E9 are positive. That being said I don't care what others think but you seem to care so much about other people's opinion.
 

 


Why have you bought an amp at all? This is a special device and there are enough more practical devices with a headphone out..

 

post #92 of 373


Amazing. The main thing I don't get is why the extra 2 dB increase for the Galaxy? How can one compare dynamic range of two devices one of which is set to play 2 dB louder than the other (after volume adjustment, it seems)? Unfortunately no mention how was the volume adjusted and what exactly was the role of Asus Xonar (supposedly an SPDIF transport for NFB-12, but no details provided? it could screw a lot). 

 

Other things aside, I haven't seen any power specs for Galaxy S headphone jacks, but they must be really fantastic if there's any truth in this test biggrin.gif I've never read about a cell phone capable of driving 300 ohm cans, it's very hard to believe..

 

 

post #93 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by axw View Post

The main thing I don't get is why the extra 2 dB increase for the Galaxy? How can one compare dynamic range of two devices one of which is set to play 2 dB louder than the other

That's probably just balancing the line level. Not all outputs are the same volume. You balance them using a test tone before you run the test.

As for a portable device, it isn't impossible to create one that pushes big cans, it's just that many manufacturers don't do that because they figure you're going to be using little portable headphones with it.
Edited by bigshot - 6/27/11 at 2:21pm
post #94 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by monoethylene View Post

Why have you bought an amp at all? This is a special device and there are enough more practical devices with a headphone out..

He already answered that- power. Sure you could just plug your cans into an integrated amp, but that isn't going to help if you want to plug into an iPod.
post #95 of 373

The background of my question is that he claims that all DAC converts more or less the same and an Amp has the purpose to amplify. This is absolutely clear by definition but isnt it the same as if I say that my car has some normal steel wheels and now I ve got some alloy rims to drive better?

post #96 of 373


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by axw View Post
The main thing I don't get is why the extra 2 dB increase for the Galaxy? How can one compare dynamic range of two devices one of which is set to play 2 dB louder than the other
That's probably just balancing the line level. Not all outputs are the same volume. You balance them using a test tone before you run the test.

 

It's still not clear if the extra 2 dB was added as the result of balancing (to match levels, assuming that at the same digital volume level Galaxy S jack output was 2 dB below NFB)
or after the balancing (so that Galaxy S jack output was 2 dB louder than NFB in the test).

And how exactly was the volume adjustment done, by decreasing it digitally by 2 dB in Asus Xonar? But this implies that the playback software oparated on comparable scales or perhaps was even the same (this is also far from obvious in this test). Or using NFB-12's analogue volume pot? (which, btw, is known to degrade sonic performance)


Edited by axw - 6/27/11 at 2:47pm
post #97 of 373

NOW REMEMBER this just my opinion!!          All of these post are for sure FUNNY, but more importantly JUST PLAIN SAD!    

post #98 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9pintube View Post

NOW REMEMBER this just my opinion!!          All of these post are for sure FUNNY, but more importantly JUST PLAIN SAD!    



Careful now...the mod is keeping this thread overwhelmingly negative. Keep your posts as neutral as possible or towards the view of popular opinion.

 

Opinions need to be backed up by DBT's, PhD studies and documented facts or clearly stated that as the opinion of one individual as you have done.

 

Keep in mind though that this thread is not about Sad posts, Happy posts or Funny posts but "Only" about "All DAC's sound the same".  Therefore you are off topic, and since you have no facts to prove your opinion I think you should be banished.

 


Edited by Dynobot - 6/27/11 at 2:55pm
post #99 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by axw View Post

 

Other things aside, I haven't seen any power specs for Galaxy S headphone jacks, but they must be really fantastic if there's any truth in this test biggrin.gif I've never read about a cell phone capable of driving 300 ohm cans, it's very hard to believe..

 

 


I only report what I have seen, as for small devices driving real headphones, well I am currently listening to my 580s driven by my Ipod Touch 4G (admittedly at near full volume)  rocking some Pratetorius, not too shabby at all, I am swapping backwards and forwards betwen my PC/Entech/M^3 setup and the iPod with the same tracks but it is hard to be objective and keep the differences in memory when you know what you are listening to so  I won't opine (on that point) further.


Edited by nick_charles - 6/27/11 at 3:26pm
post #100 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post



That's probably just balancing the line level. Not all outputs are the same volume. You balance them using a test tone before you run the test.

As for a portable device, it isn't impossible to create one that pushes big cans, it's just that many manufacturers don't do that because they figure you're going to be using little portable headphones with it.


Which manufacturer?

 

Please provide statements by that manufacture to prove your opinion.

 

I feel that you are misleading the Headfi population by making false statements on the behalf of manufacturers.  Please realize that many people come here looking for sound advice and my be easily mislead by statements that do not reflect that of true manufacturers.  If you are not a paid legal representative for a specific manufacturer you should not make general statements as to why manufacturers make their products.

 

 

 

post #101 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by axw View Post

Or using NFB-12's analogue volume pot? (which, btw, is known to degrade sonic performance)

2dB sounds exactly like line level matching. As for a noisy volume pot, I just have to shake my head and wonder what kind of equipment manufacturer can't even get a volume pot right.
post #102 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot View Post

Therefore you are off topic, and since you have no facts to prove your opinion I think you should be banished.

You banished yourself by unsubscribing from this thread yesterday, yet you're back again. The banishment you gave yourself didn't last very long.

Apple's iPod is designed to work best with portable headphones. If you want to use full size cans, it's a good idea to amp the line out. You don't need to be Steve Jobs to determine that. A simple A/B comparison will tell you what you need to know.
Edited by bigshot - 6/27/11 at 4:13pm
post #103 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post

I only report what I have seen, as for small devices driving real headphones, well I am currently listening to my 580s driven by my Ipod Touch 4G (admittedly at near full volume)  rocking some Pratetorius, not too shabby at all, I am swapping backwards and forwards betwen my PC/Entech/M^3 setup and the iPod with the same tracks but it is hard to be objective

I set up a direct level matched A/B when I got my cmoy. There is a noticeable difference in dynamics, particularly in the peaks. It was only evident in direct comparison, so it is probably less than a 3 dB difference... More like 1 or 2. I used HD590s.
post #104 of 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post



You banished yourself by unsubscribing from this thread yesterday, yet you're back again. The banishment you gave yourself didn't last very long.  <---This statement has nothing to do with the thread.

Apple's iPod is designed to work best with portable headphones. If you want to use full size cans, it's a good idea to amp the line out.  <--Please prove Apples intention for customers to use the iPod with portable headphones.  Are you an Apple designer?  Do you work at Apple? How do you know for a Fact that the iPod was designed to work with ONLY portable headphones?  I use my iPod with full sized headphones with good results.  You are misleading people by your false statements PLEASE refrain from posting your unsubstantiated opinions.
 
There may be people looking to purchase an iPod and may be put off from purchasing it because of your false posts.


 

post #105 of 373
To determine the amount of improvement between amped and unamped performance of an iPod using full size cans, please see my post to Nick. It isn't a huge difference, but it's greater than the difference between DACs or headphone amps. You might not notice unless you're doing a direct A/B comparison, so it probably doesn't matter to you. But for me, 2 dB is right about the range where I would begin to become concerned. It probably wouldn't make a difference in compressed rock music, but in classical or jazz it might start to cross over that line.
Edited by bigshot - 6/27/11 at 4:25pm
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